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RE: [#1063] APPLET alt text and alternative content

From: Michael Cooper <michaelc@watchfire.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:13:55 -0400
Message-ID: <A0666B3C59F1634290FDC88674D87C329F7232@1WFEMAIL.ottawa.watchfire.com>
To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

yeah, this issue is definately thorny. This is one major reason techniques should not be normative. We certainly don't want a normative statement saying "use APPLET" or something when the HTML spec normatively deprecates that element. Worse with EMBED. But we do have to describe techniques that work, and I think that to the extent APPLET can be used accessibly, we have to describe the technique as long as it is widely supported or used. However, we need to be clear that such techniques are to be considered interim, and we should specifically request of user agent developers (and later, authoring tool developers) to support the preferred approach. When that support exists, we can then change the recommendations in our techniques - another reason for them not to be normative so we can do that quickly.

However, I expect the presence of techniques in the draft for deprecated or officially non-existent elements like APPLET and EMBED will cause consternation among some reviewers. I think it's ok that we have the techniques in the draft knowing they will be debatable, at least there is something around which to frame the debate. We can always change later drafts of the techniques when the debate is resolved.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:05 PM
> To: Michael Cooper; 'Roberto Scano (IWA/HWG)'; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> Subject: RE: [#1063] APPLET alt text and alternative content
> 
> 
> More
> "until user agent" stuff
> 
> We are going to have to figure out what we are going to do about this
> generically with regard to the standard.  
> 
> Technical specs can just say use and don't use.  But it plays 
> different with
> us. 
> 
> However, whenever we start designing to the current user 
> agents and their
> shortcomings we get in trouble
> 
> However, if we don't we create un-implementable guidance and unusable
> content today.
> 
> However... (see first however)  
> 
>  
> Gregg
> 
>  -- ------------------------------ 
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
> Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> Director - Trace R & D Center 
> University of Wisconsin-Madison 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Cooper
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 2:35 PM
> To: Roberto Scano (IWA/HWG); w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> Subject: RE: [#1063] APPLET alt text and alternative content
> 
> 
> APPLET is in the HTML 4.01 spec, although it is deprecated. 
> EMBED is not in
> the spec, but we have decided that because of widespread UA support we
> nevertheless have to provide techniques for accessible use of 
> that element.
> We would prefer to tell people "don't use APPLET and EMBED, 
> use OBJECT" but
> our user agent testing indicates that is not a realistic 
> recommendation
> right now. Michael
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roberto Scano (IWA/HWG) [mailto:rscano@iwa-italy.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:54 PM
> > To: Michael Cooper; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: [#1063] APPLET alt text and alternative content
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry, but embed and applet aren't elements that are not 
> > defined in any W3C dtd?
> > 
> > ----- Messaggio originale -----
> >     Da: "Michael Cooper"<michaelc@watchfire.com>
> >     Inviato: 21/09/04 21.36.16
> >     A: "WAI GL (E-mail)"<w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> >     Oggetto: [#1063] APPLET alt text and alternative content
> >       
> >     The following is a proposal for HTML techniques. I will 
> > implement the proposal in a draft unless there is objection 
> > from the group. There will still be room for debate of the 
> > proposal in the context of the next draft.
> >     
> >     HTML techniques currently describe mechanisms for 
> > providing alternative content for the OBJECT and EMBED 
> > elements but fail to do so for the APPLET element. There 
> > should be a technique to use the "alt" attribute or embedded 
> > content of APPLET to provide text alternatives. The embedded 
> > content approach should be preferred since it would work in 
> > the complete absence of support for the APPLET element.
> >     
> >     --- Signature ---
> >     
> >     Michael Cooper
> >     Accessibility Product Manager, Watchfire
> >     1 Hines Rd Suite 200, Kanata, ON  K2K 3C7  Canada
> >     Tel: +1 (613) 599-3888 x4019
> >     Fax: +1 (613) 599-4661
> >     Email: michaelc@watchfire.com
> >     Web: http://www.watchfire.com/
> >     
> >     
> >         
> > 
> > [Messaggio troncato. Toccare Modifica->Segna per il download 
> > per recuperare la restante parte.]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 28 September 2004 14:13:56 UTC

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