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RE: Is there a source document for every Web resource?

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:08:45 -0500 (EST)
To: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Cc: 'Al Gilman' <Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org>, w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.55.0402261905120.32584@homer.w3.org>

I understand that the question was "are there things that don't have source
documents" and Al's ansewr was "yes, there are" (although I don't see any
illustrative examples).

So apparently no, according to Al there isn't a source document for
everything.

I'm not clear on what qualifies as a "source document" for the purposes of
the question.

cheers

Chaals

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:

>
>True.  But is there a source document? Or just a delivery document....
>
>
>Gregg
>
> -- ------------------------------
>Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>Director - Trace R & D Center
>University of Wisconsin-Madison
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
>Of Al Gilman
>Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:57 AM
>To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>Subject: Re: Is there a source document for every Web resource?
>
>
>At 11:41 AM 2004-02-25, you wrote:
>>For the rewrite of 3.2 (formerly 3.4), I'd like to know whether for all
>>"host" technologies that create Web resources, there is something that
>>corresponds to the source documents for static HTML pages.  Another way to
>>phrase this might be: is there any Web content for which there is *not* a
>>source document (or component of a source document)?
>
>Now that I see what you are talking about[1], the answer is 'yes.'
>
>That is to say, where the user agent is on one computer and receiving
>content from a server operating on another computer across a network,
>the format used in the network communication is commonly termed the
>'wire format.'  The "Architecture of the World Wide Web" document talks
>about this as a 'representation' of the 'resource' 'identified' by a
>URI.
>
>  http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-webarch-20031209/#msg-representation
>
>And there are guidelines to be articulated that deals with order and
>grouping in the wire format.
>
>To the extent that the wire format exhibits order and grouping, the order
>and grouping should be reasonably usable.
>
>A pretty good test of reasonably usable order is if that order is followed
>in pure-audio presentation.
>
>Factoring this into abstract and abstract:concrete binding layers:
>
>A: The native order of the wire format should be usable in delivery
>contexts that
>are highly dependent on order.
>
>B: pure-audio presentation is a sufficiently representative example of
>order-dependent delivery contexts for test purposes.
>
>A pretty good test of reasonably usable grouping is if that grouping is used
>in hierarchical single-switch navigation[2].
>
>Factoring this one:
>
>A: The native grouping of the wire format should be usable in delivery
>contexts
>which are highly dependent on order.
>
>B: single-switch tree-descent of the content is a sufficiently
>representative
>grouping-dependent task for test purposes.
>
>One may have to give consideration to higher forms of representing order and
>grouping in applying this test.  The textual order of text formats and
>the parse-tree hierarchy, un-filtered, of XML and HTML formats, are not
>necessarily the only order and grouping to evaluate.
>
>Examples of these higher levels:
>
>navindex in XForms and tabindex in HTML
>
>drawing-groups ('g' elements) in SVG with 'title' or 'desc' provided vs.
>those
>without.
>
>[But marking and filtering of 'g' elements in SVG is a research topic.  It's
>not clear that we can articulate a technique that would be a winner without
>wider experience.]
>
>Al
>
>[1] There is also a possible 'no' answer to what you first asked.
>
><quote cite=
>"http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-webarch-20031209/#representation-management">
>
>3.6.1. Representation availability
>
>    The authority responsible for a resource may supply zero or more
>    representations of a resource.  [...]
>
></quote>
>
>But the fact that a given 'urn' or 'info' URI lacks an expansion, a
>"recoverable
>representation" in the jargon of the web, is not a matter of disability
>access
>inequities.  It affects everyone equally and may be appropriate.
>
>[2] Possible interaction protocol for hierarchical descent with single
>switch.
>Animate a selection style over the parse-tree branches at the current level
>and
>descend on receiving a switch event.  Similar to mouse-grid in voice
>command,
>but parse-grid instead.
>
>>Thanks!
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>"Good design is accessible design."
>>Please note our new name and URL!
>>John Slatin, Ph.D.
>>Director, Accessibility Institute
>>University of Texas at Austin
>>FAC 248C
>>1 University Station G9600
>>Austin, TX 78712
>>ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524
>>email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
>>web
>><http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/>http://www.utexas.edu/resear
>ch/accessibility/
>>
>>
>>
>

Charles McCathieNevile  http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  tel: +61 409 134 136
SWAD-E http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe         fax(france): +33 4 92 38 78 22
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Received on Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:08:51 UTC

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