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Re: [#293] Summary for tables

From: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:28:30 -0400
Message-ID: <0a5601c34c6f$b2186590$b040968e@WILDDOG>
To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
Cc: "WAI GL" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

> One technique that could be used is to make use of Semantic Web
technologies
> such as Annotea...
>
Yes, a nice solution but this may be beyond what the typical page author can
currently do.

If we insist that data tables must have THs and layout tables can't then
this solves the problem.

The only time you need to explicitly state the table purpose is when you
want to break this rule.

Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
To: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
Cc: "WAI GL" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [#293] Summary for tables


>
> [-cc HTML]
>
> I don't see that there is a lot of value in trying to change HTML. They
state
> that tables are not for page layout (have done since 1997), and they
normally
> work on how to make compliant HTML work, not how to make non-compliant
HTML
> work.
>
> One technique that could be used is to make use of Semantic Web
technologies
> such as Annotea. You could select a table and post an annotation to the
> effect that it is just layout. (If you are prepared to give an "id" to the
> table I'll write a tool that can be used to do this). Then any tool that
is
> interested in finding out can look up the relevant annotea server and
handle
> it appropriately. This means that you build user interfaces in any
language,
> or graphic ones, and don't rely on picking up a string in english.
>
> This can in fact be combined with the evaluation tool I talked about
earlier
> - you simply identify the table that doesn't meet the "don't use tables
for
> layout" test. Whether this is done for marking the table, or done in
testing
> the page, the results become available in both contexts.
>
> This would take some relatively easy coordination with the TAERT document
> ("testing accessibility evaluation and repair tools) - and the ERT group
to
> make it work - probably a lot easier than changing HTML.
>
> If people would like to see how this can work, I'll make an example. If
Joe
> Clark would like to suggest a real-world page to use as the example, be my
> guest.
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Roberto Scano - IWA/HWG wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
> >To: "Roberto Scano - IWA/HWG" <rscano@iwa-italy.org>; "Jens Meiert"
> ><jens.meiert@erde3.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> >Cc: <www-html@w3.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:14 PM
> >Subject: Re: [#293] Summary for tables
> >
> >
> >>
> >>  <table type="layout" />
> >>
> >> The TABLE element does not have a TYPE attribute in HTML4 so, as
Roberto
> >> suggested, this would cause problems.
> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#edef-TABLE
> >>
> >> Even if approved by the XHTML group this would cause problems with HTML
> >> validator tools.
> >
> >Following your suggestion, an attribute that i think could be use is the
> >"title" attribute. As you know the screen readers works on the table with
> >the summary attribute. If we create an instruction like this:
> >
> ><table title="layout" summary="...">
> >
> >Roberto Scano
> >IWA/HWG EMEA Coordinator
> >W3C Advisory Committee Representative for IWA/HWG
> >International Webmasters Association / HTML Writers Guild
> >http://www.iwanet.org - http://www.hwg.org
> >E-Mail: emea@iwanet.org - w3c-rep@iwanet.org
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile  http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  tel: +61 409 134
136
> SWAD-E http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe         fax(france): +33 4 92 38
78 22
>  Post:   21 Mitchell street, FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia    or
>  W3C, 2004 Route des Lucioles, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France
>
Received on Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:28:34 GMT

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