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RE: 4.1

From: Chris O'Kennon <chris@vipnet.org>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:04:39 -0400
Message-ID: <BCECCA7B3D37D611ABC5009027D6228A0402B0@iexch1.vipnet.org>
To: "'Charles McCathieNevile '" <charles@w3.org>, "Chris O'Kennon" <chris@vipnet.org>
Cc: "''Lee Roberts ' '" <leeroberts@roserockdesign.com>, "''w3c-wai-gl@w3.org ' '" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

 *snicker* ...James Joyce...*snicker*

I can't wait to apply whatever we come up with to the state of Virginia's
site.  Hopefully I won't get fired in a vague and obtuse manner...

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McCathieNevile
To: Chris O'Kennon
Cc: 'Lee Roberts '; 'w3c-wai-gl@w3.org '
Sent: 6/9/02 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: 4.1

Well, style and clarity are not the same things. And it appears that we
can
describe how to write clearly better than we can describe how to write
"well". (Which is why there are more useful technical manuals than there
are
works of James Joyce).

Chaals

On Fri, 31 May 2002, Chris O'Kennon wrote:


   Which leads to the problem of how to determine if something has been
  written in a way that everyone can understand.  I've seen "clearly
written"
  documents that are so poorly done as to mean multiple things from what
was
  intended.  But you can't dictate good writing style, can you?

  Chris O'Kennon


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Lee Roberts
  To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
  Sent: 5/31/02 1:10 PM
  Subject: RE: 4.1


  I concur with Chaals.  However, I have the same question as before.

  If we say this, are we saying that the content must be written to a
  level
  that everyone would understand.  If a thesis, article, or scientific
  paper
  is published on the Internet so others might be able to use the
  information,
  is this then required to be easily understood by everyone?

  It seems constraining and possibly discrediting to the individual's
work
  or
  studies. Or even discrediting to the business' research.  If we go to
  the
  library and do research on a scientific research project we expect to
  see
  tough language and concepts.  Wouldn't this also apply to the
Internet?

  Thanks,
  Lee

  -----Original Message-----
  From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]On
  Behalf Of Charles McCathieNevile
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:17 AM
  To: Lisa Seeman
  Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
  Subject: Re: 4.1



  I think the requirement belongs, but I agree that "as the author feels
  appropriate" weakens the requirement beyond any point of usefulness.
It
  also
  makes self-fulfilling the claim (which I do not believe as consensus)
  that
  it
  is not possible to provide relatively objective success criteria (our
  80%
  rule) for this checkpoint.

  How about "Use language that is easy to understand" as the text. This
  makes
  no comment on the complexity of the content being described, does not
  attempt
  to incorporate success criteria such as "what the author thinks is
  appropriate" into the checkpoint, and allows for success criteria to
be
  provided as well as additional techniques to be offered.

  Cheers

  Charles

  On Fri, 31 May 2002, Lisa Seeman wrote:


    I would like to object to 4.1 (and 4.2) - write as clearly and
simply
  as
    author feels appropriate for the content

    I would prefer that the checkpoint is omitted entirely.

    As it stands a site that is entirely inaccessible to people in terms
  of
    conforms to 4.1 can claim conformance to 4.1.
    This will serve to confuse people as to what sites are and are not
    accessible to them


    I also feel that "as appropriate for content " is offensive as most
  people
    are not thinking in terms of linguistic art, but in terms of
  abilities.

    In other words people will assume that WCAG thinks that there is
  content
    were people with severe cognitive disabilities could not understand.
I
    prefer such a checkpoint should not be written

    Thanks
    Lisa


  --
  Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
  409
  134 136
  W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4
  92 38
  78 22
  Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
  (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis
Cedex,
  France)


-- 
Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4
92 38 78 22
Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
France)
Received on Sunday, 9 June 2002 17:04:33 GMT

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