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Re: conformance

From: by way of Wendy A Chisholm <apembert45@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:50:41 -0400
Message-Id: <>
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org

     Unless my perception isn't accurate, the version
1.0 plan of three levels didn't work since few if any
people bothered with level three. So why have three
levels. It seems that two are enough. It's not that P3
was ignored because it was the cognitive needs, but
because the indication was that few people were
supposed to be left out at the P3 level. Whoever's
needs are in P3, unless they are purely fluff (gee it
would be nice's), are going to be ignored.

    Yes, I have said it would be nice if folks could
find the pages that meet their needs, but from what
I've seen of the reporting schemes, this information
will not be accessible to the ordinary user. Therefore
the reporting schemes would not satisfy the need for
users to be able to find content that suits their
needs. Again, I see no audience for the reporting
scheme and it seems a waste of time. Maybe it could go
in the "it would be nice if you did it" category, or
in the "when user agents can use it" category.
Remember that the reporting scheme needs to be fully
accessible, usable, and understandable, if it is ever
to be used by users.

--- Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org> wrote:
 > The problem of most accommodations for cognitive
 > disabilities being only P3
 > will not be solved by removing the priority level,
 > it can only be solved by
 > changing the priority of individual requirements.
 > This is not to say that we
 > should not consider a two-level scheme, just that
 > the argument you give here
 > doesn't justify it.
 > You then identify one need for a reporting scheme -
 > the desire to start with
 > a base level, and support for known audience (e.g.
 > there is one blind student
 > in my class so it is more important to add the
 > things that student definitely
 > needs than things that someone might need one day).
 > Of course, in a perfect world, all material will be
 > "completely" accessible,
 > but we don't live there yet - and won't until the
 > tools people use to make
 > Web content do most of it for them.
 > Which leads to another audience for a reporting
 > scheme. People in the process
 > of producing content, especially where there is more
 > than one person involved
 > in the production, as is the case for many large
 > sites, need to know what
 > they have done and what still needs doing. A
 > reasonably standard method would
 > enable people producing content to more easily use
 > different tools, each for
 > what they do best.
 > I don't think this group needs to develop a
 > reporting mechanism (in part
 > because other groups in W3C are working hard on it,
 > including the people who
 > produce tools like Bobby, aprompt and the various
 > plugins for assessing
 > accessibility in authoring tools, who all believe
 > they have an audience). But
 > it is important that the guidelines document at
 > least enables such a scheme.
 > Fortunately this is not hard, and it would be hard
 > to produce a document that
 > met our own requirements and did not do this.
 > (Technically, what it requires is that each
 > checkpoint have a URI, and with
 > Xpath or Xpointer that means that each checkpoint is
 > a seperate element,
 > although ideally it would have an ID attribute. We
 > need that to make the
 > techniques documents useable anyway, and already
 > have it in all the drafts
 > we have produced to date. So in many ways it is a
 > moot point.)
 > Finally, given a decent reporting scheme we will
 > enable people to find
 > content that works for them, whether or not it is
 > "completely accessible" - a
 > need that you have often identified.
 > Charles McCN
 > On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Anne Pemberton wrote:
 >   In the triple-layer scheme, the accommodations for
 > cognitive disabilities
 >   were only required at the top level which conveyed
 > a sense that they were
 >   basically unnecessary, barring a lot of people
 > from using sites. Reducing
 >   the conformance to two levels eliminates the level
 > no one ever strives for ...
 >   Using the purpose of a site to determine what
 > conformance level to use
 >   makes the most sense to me. If a site has a
 > limited audience, go for
 >   minimum and add only what you need to serve your
 > known audience .... but if
 >   your site is for the general public, then it must
 > comply such that everyone
 >   can use it and none have the empty plate. To do
 > anything less is to consign
 >   some users to only using entertainment sites and
 > never getting at any meat.
 >   I see no need for a reporting system since there
 > is no audience for the
 >   reports. It's a waste of time.
 > Anne

Anne Pemberton
Computer Teacher
Southside Elementary School
Dinwiddie, VA, USA 23894

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Received on Thursday, 11 October 2001 09:47:08 UTC

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