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RE: What does "for example" mean (venue?)

From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:00:45 -0500
Message-Id: <200103081640.LAA5509667@smtp2.mail.iamworld.net>
To: gv@trace.wisc.edu, Jason White <jasonw@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
** process -- Request to the chairs:

I believe that this question belongs under the "usage" discussion which is
currently designated as a work item for cross-group coordination using the
wai-xtech list as the discussion space.

Would the chairs of GL be willing to indicate that GL will not take a vote or
position on this point until it has been reviewed in that venue?

** product -- for information

I agree that we could impose an eitorial rule not to rely on "for example" to
convey non-restrictive semantics, but to spell things out in a more verbose
fashion as Len suggested.  Or we can have our own annex to the "must, should,
may" RFC which simply defines our use of i.e. and e.g. so the documents can be
terse but definitive.

This is a "usage" decision and the problem is the same in all the guidelines
volumes.  That's why I suggest we not try to close this thread in GL without
consultation using xtech.


At 11:23 AM 2001-03-08 -0500, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
>I would suggest the other interpretation - that "for example" means "one way
>that this can be achieved is". That is the assumption under which I read the
>WCAG drafts as a member of the group. Whether the example is in fact the best
>or only way is not reaqlly relevant - I expect people will keep using it for
>the real world, and the idea was that the examples are useful. But  they are
>not necessarily the only or even best way.
>I agree that focussing on what things are actually required is  agood thing
>in any event.
>my 2 bits.
>On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Leonard R. Kasday wrote:
>  I agree with william that the main thing is to make sure people understand
>  there are choices and explain the choices.
>    I suggest we change the wording from
>  quote
>  For example, in HTML, use the "summary" attribute of the TABLE element.
>  unquote
>  to something like
>  quote
>  For example, in HTML, one way is to use "summary" attribute of the TABLE
>  element.
>  unquote
>  Or any other wording that makes it explicit that "summary" is not required.
>  Also, as part of this erratum, I think we should say that things following
>  "for example" are always required unless the guidelines explicitly say
>  otherwise.  I think that covers most or all of the uses of "for
>  example".  We then put in a few words where we didn't want it to always
>  required.
>  It this leads to arguments about whether things are required or not, well,
>  that has to be settled for WCAG 2.0 anyway, so that work isn't wasted.
>  I think we have to be really clear here.  Adherence to WCAG is being
>  written into actual contracts, so we should remove ambiguity as much as we
>  can, even if it's clear to us what we mean.
>  Len
>  At 07:49 AM 3/6/01 -0800, William Loughborough wrote:
>  >At 09:21 AM 3/6/01 -0500, Bailey, Bruce wrote:
>  >>Documents like the WCAG _are_ going to be taken literally, and if this is
>  >>not the intent, then the authors should write more carefully
>  >
>  >Apparently "literally" and "carefully" are, as Al tried to point out, a
>  >bit more complex than they seem.
>  >
>  >What stuff "means" is often in the mind of the reader a quite different
>  >matter than it was for the author. Does "all men are created equal"
>  >deliberately exclude women? Are people with otherly-colored skin "men"?,
>  >
>  >No matter how careful we are there will be different readings of our
>  >product, but if we can avoid being too testy with one another we will find
>  >a way to make future clarifications more likely.
>  >
>  >Whatever "erratum" we issue re WCAG 1.0's treatment of SUMMARY won't
>  >matter much if we make clear that summarizing is encouraged (in the
>  >checkpoints) and how to do it includes (in the techniques) some hierarchy
>  >among TITLE, CAPTION, NAME, SUMMARY, ALT, LONGDESC - in other words "get
>  >appropriate", whatever that means in a particular instance.
>  >--
>  >Love.
>  >
>  --
>  Leonard R. Kasday, Ph.D.
>  Institute on Disabilities/UAP and Dept. of Electrical Engineering at Temple
>  University
>  (215) 204-2247 (voice)                 (800) 750-7428 (TTY)
>  <http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday>http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday        
>  Chair, W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Evaluation and Repair Tools Group
>  <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/>http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/
>  The WAVE web page accessibility evaluation assistant:
>Charles McCathieNevile   
<http://www.w3.org/People/Charles>http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
409 134 136
>W3C Web Accessibility Initiative    
<http://www.w3.org/WAI>http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1 617 258 5999
>Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
>(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
Received on Thursday, 8 March 2001 11:41:16 UTC

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