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Re: Seeking guidance...

From: Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:00:07 -0400
Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000406125315.00b7b340@localhost>
To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>, Crystal Allen <crystal@cpd2.usu.edu>
Cc: WAI GL <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I was working on this problem last year.  The work-around that I created 
used style sheets and scripting.

When scripts are on, the submenu would appear after a mouse click (rather 
than mouse over) or a keyboard event (pressing the enter key).  This event 
caused the submenu, as defined as a style sheet "layer," to be displayed.

When scripts are off style sheets are also not loaded and the submenus 
appear with the menu bar in an outline.

refer to http://sun.trace.wisc.edu/mwc

an outdated write up is available at: 
http://sun.trace.wisc.edu/~chisholm/dhtml/  note that it has not been 
touched in over a year <wendy blushes from embarrasment>.  I have been 
hoping to get back to it for a while but have not.

comments?  anyone want to play with it? help me bring it up to date?
--wendy

At 10:10 AM 4/6/00 , Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
>Interesting question.
>
>At the moment there is no way to make this happen on the client side - you
>always need some kind of server-side solution (such as the submenu, although
>there are fancier things you could do which would hit your server harder).
>
>You could make this more directly accesssible for those with script-capable
>browsers by adding an onfocus method, but I need to think for a minute how
>that works for turning things off (since the focus will shift to a bit of the
>submenu...).
>
>It might not be very easy to do this in HTML. An interesting question is that
>use of submenus that are not available on the main page unless you process
>scripts, and the effect this has on the accessibility of the site. The
>obvious issue is that you are required to use a different navigation path if
>you have a browser that canot handle scripts. But then, you can use both
>paths if you do handle scripts.
>
>thoughts anyone?
>
>Charles McCN
>
>
>On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Crystal Allen wrote:
>
>   Charles,
>
>   Thanks for the useful info.
>
>   Expanding my question into an area where my knowledge is limited, is it
>   possible to make pop-up menus that are generated by a mouseover accessible?
>   An example is the main menu at http://webaim.org (accessibility note: 
> though
>   the pop-up menus on this page may not be directly accessible, an equivalent
>   to the menus is provided in the form of a submenu on each page).  Is 
> there a
>   way to make the pop-up menu directly accessible so that an alternative
>   (submenu) does not need to be provided?
>
>   Thanks,
>   Crystal Allen
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
>   To: "Crystal Allen" <crystal@cpd2.usu.edu>
>   Cc: "Melinda Morris-Black" <melinda@ink.org>; "Accessibility Listserve"
>   <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>   Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:27 PM
>   Subject: Re: Seeking guidance...
>
>
>   > Making HTML 4 mouseover effects accessible to keyboard users is pretty
>   > trivial - add an onfocus/onblur to each element that matches the
>   > onmouseover/onmouseout.
>   >
>   > Making the effects accessible is more complex. It is still important not
>   to
>   > rely on the effects of scripts for providing people with important
>   > functionality, but there are a couple of thigs you can do. THe goal would
>   be
>   > to ensure that the alternative content provided for an image was updated
>   at
>   > the same time as the image was changed by a mouseover. There are other
>   uses
>   > where there is only "accessible" content being affected in the first
>   place,
>   > and in that case the important thing is that the user know what is going
>   to
>   > happen, rather than beng surprised by the way a page works benig changed
>   > seemingly arbitrarily. Although many blind users do not use a mouse, most
>   > computers have them , and particularly in the case of touch-pad mice such
>   as
>   > are ommon on laptops, the user may not know where the mouse is. (Or they
>   may
>   > have been using mousekeys, and know precisely where it is...)
>   >
>   > Sorry that this is only a partial answer for the moment.
>   >
>   > regards
>   >
>   > Charles McCN
>   >
>   > On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Crystal Allen wrote:
>   >
>   >   Is there a way to make mouseovers accessible?  If anyone could 
> enlighten
>   me
>   >   with a technique to do this it would be much appreciated.
>   >
>   >   Crystal Allen
>   >
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: "Melinda Morris-Black" <melinda@ink.org>
>   >   To: "Accessibility Listserve" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>   >   Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:13 AM
>   >   Subject: Seeking guidance...
>   >
>   >
>   >   > The issues surrounding inclusion of Javascript and accessibility 
> are a
>   >   > little confusing. I'm looking to the list for clarification. What
>   >   > types/elements of scripts seem to be at issue? I know mouseovers are
>   >   > accessible if tagged correctly. However, I've heard negative feedback
>   >   > related to using Javascript forms. Any info on this subject is 
> greatly
>   >   > appreciated.
>   >   >
>   >   > I've included a specific example of a script I'm checking for
>   >   > accessibility. It generates a rotating list of links on the home 
> page.
>   >   >
>   >   > http://www.state.ct.us/
>   >   >
>   >   > Any feedback related to the accessibility is welcome.
>   >   >
>   >   > --
>   >   > Regards,
>   >   >
>   >   > Melinda Morris-Black
>   >   > melinda@ink.org
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --
>   > Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 (0) 409 134
>   136
>   > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative
>   http://www.w3.org/WAI
>   > Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053
>   > Postal: GPO Box 2476V, Melbourne 3001,  Australia
>   >
>
>
>--
>Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136
>W3C Web Accessibility Initiative                      http://www.w3.org/WAI
>Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053
>Postal: GPO Box 2476V, Melbourne 3001,  Australia

--
wendy a chisholm
world wide web consortium
web accessibility initiative
madison, wi usa
tel: +1 608 663 6346
/--
Received on Thursday, 6 April 2000 12:52:49 GMT

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