W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > January to March 1998

Re: ALT text survey

From: Colin F Reynolds <colin@the-net-effect.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:52:50 +0000
Message-ID: <S178BmAy2h40Ew4V@the-net-effect.com>
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
In article <E3A3FFB80F5CD1119CED00805FBECA2F013BBDC6@red-msg-
55.dns.microsoft.com>, Charles (Chuck) Oppermann <chuckop@MICROSOFT.com>
>In a informal survey of various sites, I found all of them used HEIGHT and
>WIDTH.  People and authoring tools put them in, so that the page is
>formatted correctly before the image is loaded.

... but earlier, you said

>>No guidelines should recommend to authors that they specify minimum HEIGHT=
>>and WIDTH= attributes,

So what _are_ you saying?

>Even the primarily text based http://www.yahoo.com uses them.  So while you
>might not think that HTML isn't a page layout language, it's certainly being
>used as one.  

You'll have to give me notice on that, I can't sort out the double-
negatives. If you're claiming that since there are a lot of people using
a badly-made hammer to remove screws, then we should continue
development of the hammer, I have to disagree with you.

>Obviously, the guidelines must reflect the real world of HTML development.

Oh, dear. You've invoked the Reel Wurld. I guess all sensible discussion
is over then. :(

>Concerning your comment about competition-bashing.  That wasn't my intent.
>However, we will take credit for the accessibility features that have been
>present in Internet Explorer for awhile now.

Well then, if you speak for MICROSOFT.com (your caps), then please
explain to me how it is that MSIE 3.02 on Windows 95 is non-compliant
with the specs in respect of the display of ALT as tooltips? (ie - ALT
should NOT be displayed as tooltips, as confirmed by Foteos Macrides).

Ref: <URL:http://www.the-net-effect.com/bad-tooltips.html>

In "the real world", yours as well as mine, there are a lot of people
still using this browser.

The point is, the more versions of a browser which are released
(whichever the manufacturer) which exhibit incorrect behaviour, the more
and more difficult it becomes for web authors to markup the content

>  That is the goal of these
>groups isn't it?  To affect the development of Internet products to make
>them more accessible?

Yes, hopefully.

So, in that spirit, can you tell me in which release of Internet
Explorer Microsoft intends to correct the incorrect rendering of ALT? So
that I may return to "the real world" and continue to author web pages
without worrying that at some point in the future someone is going to
change the behaviour yet again for no apparent reason?

If my tone makes it seem as though I'm annoyed, it's because I am.

Colin Reynolds, The Net Effect (World Wide) Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)1246 450 901
Fax: +44 (0)1246 450 902
Received on Wednesday, 11 February 1998 17:51:39 UTC

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