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Re: Fw: Checkpoint 3.3

From: David Poehlman <poehlman@clark.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:22:52 -0400
Message-ID: <37921B7C.DCEA704F@clark.net>
To: Robert Neff <robneff@home.com>
CC: IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, w3c-wai-eo@w3.org, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
The guidelines were never intended to be requirements.  we are not
charged with writing requirements but we are charged with making sure
that those who write requirements make them sensable.  if someone
writes a requirement that is not sensable, we just simply proclaim its
inaccuracy or insensability to the world to the chagrin and
embarassment of the requiring entity.  thus far, no requirement has
been insensably written except for a handful and they erred on the
side of accessibility and have since for all but one or two been
fixed.
eo then is charged with making it quite clear that the guidelines can
not be taken as requirememts but must be used in the development of
requirements.

I would be quite happy to use the guidelines to prepair a set of
requirements for a fee.
Robert Neff wrote:
> 
> hey dave,
> 
> normally one specification is the correct and final authority.  any other
> supporting documents must be written to the master guideline.  For example,
> if you have a contract that has a table.  The table is there to provide a
> better understanding;however it was written to the text.  Therefore, in
> contracts, never base your decision on the table, make sure it matched the
> text.
> 
> The master document must be correct, and since the guidelines are the W3C
> Recommendation, they must be sound and correct.  You cannot build supporting
> documents that conflict with the recommendation.
> 
> As for applying some intelligence to solve problems, i am all for that,
> except when those guidelines may be recommended verbatim by the ACCESS Board
> and then enforced by the United States Government or any government for that
> matter.  If they are enforceable, then they better be right along with the
> supporting documents or else the WAI will look real foolish when the web
> developers start asking the same questions we have been asking!  Think of us
> as the test case scenario!
> 
> Until there is a rating board or trained people, we rate ourselves, which is
> like letting the fox guard the henhouse.  We will interpret these the way we
> want until we have a tight guideline.
> 
> rob
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Poehlman <poehlman@clark.net>
> To: Robert Neff <robneff@home.com>
> Cc: IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>; Web Content Accessibility
> Guidelines <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 1999 7:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Checkpoint 3.3
> 
> > we must look at the total picture here.  the guidelines and
> > checkpoints serve as guides.  some intellegence must be applied in
> > order to solve problems of ambeguity or seeming conflict in the
> > guidelines and yes, some need to be stated differently.  does the
> > curriculum help here?  Context is very very important here.  Don't
> > take one guideline or one checkpoint and try to generalize the bejesus
> > out of it.
> >
> > Robert Neff wrote:
> > >
> > > I do not doubt the CSS's usability.  I question why I am being forced to
> use
> > > CSS to obtain a Double A conformance level.  I can make a web page that
> is
> > > accessible using HTML 3.2 and 4.  Before the recommendation, I had done
> that
> > > at Department of Labor before CSS was widely used, see
> > > http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/programs/dbra/index.html.  I had
> designed
> > > a layout without tables for formatting and in HTML 4 Transitional.  This
> was
> > > the closest thing to adopting over 90% of the checkpoints.  BUT I used
> HTML
> > > not  CSS.  If I were still there, I would be livid about Checkpoint 3.3.
> > > Now all of a sudden I have to switch because another language is wanted.
> > > CSS has design guidelines and so does HTML and both must be properly
> > > applied.
> > >
> > > I cannot support a recommendation that disallows other methodologies
> that
> > > can be made accessible.
> > >
> > > By the way, how does Checkpoint 3.3 apply when I want to make a HTML
> page
> > > that is text only and use HTML 3.2 with no deprecated items and follow
> the
> > > rest of the guidelines except Checkpoint 3.3? For example, except for
> > > Checkpoint 3.3, I am Triple A.  This is like telling me I MUST purchase
> a
> > > new car when an used one will do!
> > >
> > > This is a note to Jamie (Are you monitoring?): Now that you are running
> the
> > > Davis-Bacon site, if it wasn't for checkpoint 3.3, how close are you to
> > > Triple A conformance?
> > >
> > > Basically, my position is the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
> (WCAG)
> > > should change Checkpoint 3.3 to say, "Use CSS where possible."  If you
> have
> > > not read the WCAG yet, then wake-up and realize that you will be
> required to
> > > use CSS to obtain a Double A conformance rating.  If you are associated
> with
> > > the United States Government then expect the Federal Government to adopt
> the
> > > WCAG next year.  Does anyone have any comments on this?  Your opinions
> do
> > > matter.
> > >
> > > Are there any other government efforts or other efforts to adopt Double
> A?
> > >
> > > rob
> >
> > --
> > Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> > Touching The Internet:
> > mailto:poehlman@clark.net
> > Voice: 301.949.7599
> > ftp://ftp.clark.net/pub/poehlman
> > http://poehlman.clark.net
> > Dynamic Solutions Inc.
> > Best of service
> > for your small business
> > network needs!
> > http://www.dnsolutions.com
> >
> > ---sig off---
> >

-- 
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
Touching The Internet:
mailto:poehlman@clark.net
Voice: 301.949.7599
ftp://ftp.clark.net/pub/poehlman
http://poehlman.clark.net
Dynamic Solutions Inc.
Best of service
for your small business
network needs!
http://www.dnsolutions.com

---sig off---
Received on Sunday, 18 July 1999 14:26:35 GMT

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