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Minutes of telecon: 2003-03-11

From: Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:31:33 +0000
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030311203001.00bdd028@127.0.0.1>
To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org

Time:
11:00:00 Tue Mar 10 2003 in America/New York duration 120 minutes

which is equivalent to
16:00:00 Tue Mar 10 2003 in Europe/London

Phone: +1.617.761.7000 (Tobin) **NOTE** number change
irc: irc.w3.org #rdfcore

Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0042.html
IRC log: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11

Summary of decisions:

CARRIED: to strike section 4 from concepts document (pfps-14, and others)
CARRIED: to postpone literals in parsetype collection (hendler-01 )
CARRIED: to accept and act upon comments (hodder-01)
CARRIED: to accept and act upon comments (krech-01,jjc-01)
CARRIED: to revise text in response to (pfps-15)
CARRIED: to develop primer text concerning reification (danc-03)
CARRIED: to change 'namespace' to 'vocabulary',
          except when XML namespaces are meant (pfps-17)


Summary of actions:

ACTION 2003-03-11#1, JJC: Make a proposal that abstract syntax contains 
canonicalized XML,
                           with comments.
ACTION 2003-03-11#2, GK:  Delete section 4 of concepts document
ACTION 2003-03-11#3, BWM: Move issue rdfms-assertion to postponed
ACTION 2003-03-11#4, EDs: Document editors to review documents for 
consequential changes
ACTION 2003-03-11#5, EM:  Raise issue with SWCG "to prioritize further 
discussion ..."
ACTION 2003-03-11#7, GK:  Respond to (various people) on pfps-14
ACTION 2003-03-11#6, DB:  Respond to WEBONT on Hendler-01
ACTION 2003-03-11#8, DB:  Respond to commentator on hodder-o1
ACTION 2003-03-11#9,  DB:  Respond to commentator on krech-01
ACTION 2003-03-11#10, DB:  Update documents as proposed in message
ACTION 2003-03-11#11, FM:  Update documents as proposed in message and 
discussion
ACTION 2003-03-11#12, FM:  Respond to pfps-15
ACTION 2003-03-11#13, FM:  Respond to pfps-17
ACTION 2003-03-11#14, FM:  Update documents as proposed
ACTION 2003-03-11#15, BWM: Re-post boilerplate for response to comments

These actions not formally recorded, but seem likely to be agreed:

ACTION 2003-03-11#?1, FM:  Update documents as proposed in message
ACTION 2003-03-11#?2, FM:  Respond to danc-03



1: Volunteer scribe

GK scribes



2: Roll Call

Present:  Jeremy Carroll
           Frank Manola
           Brian McBride
           Eric Miller
           Graham Klyne
           Dave Beckett
           Mike Dean

Regrets:  Jan Grant
           Jos de Roo



3: Next telecon 14 Mar 2003 1000 Boston Time
Volunteer Scribe

(None recorded)



4: Apology
Apologies to the WG that this is a cursory agenda without the usual links etc.
A combination of the W3C site being down and backlog of work after the tech
plenary means I didn't have the time to do better.


Process discussion:  Brian queries whether the meeting is quorate.
Most of the editors are present, so the decision is to proceed with
the telecon as a normal working group telecon, but defer formal
announcent of any decisions until after the next WG telecon, where
the decisions can be retified and/or challenged.



5: Issues to be considered

see:  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/

.....

reagle-01  XMLLiteral equality
reagle-02  exc-c14n throughout

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  16:11:32

see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0025.html

The meeting's general consensus was to tighten up the specification to use
canonicalized form in the abstract syntax, while noting that applications
remain free to use a non-canonical form to represent the canonical form.
This simplifies the specifications, and effectively requires that reasoners
do full canonicalization, but leaves applications that don't reason about
XML literal forms free to not canonicalize.

ACTION 2003-03-11#1, JJC: Make a proposal that abstract syntax contains 
canonicalized XML, with comments.

.....

pfps-14    Social Meaning

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  16:46:40

Jeremy reported back from the meeting in Boston:
see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0027.html

Unanimous recommendation from that meeting was to strike discussion of
social meaning, and attendant issues.   It was noted that this did not
preclude the possibility to define these issues in another, later,
document.

PROPOSED by GK to strike section 4 from concepts document
see:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0029.html
SECONDED by EM
CARRIED with no objection or abstentions.

ACTION 2003-03-11#2, GK:  Delete section 4 of concepts document
ACTION 2003-03-11#3, BWM: Move issue rdfms-assertion to postponed
ACTION 2003-03-11#4, EDs: Document editors to review documents for 
consequential changes
ACTION 2003-03-11#5, EM:  Raise issue with SWCG "to prioritize further 
discussion ..."
ACTION 2003-03-11#7, GK:  Respond to (various people) on pfps-14

[NOTE: hold off response until after Friday]

.....

hendler-01 literals in parsetype collection

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  16:58:28

see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0034.html

PROPOSED BWM:
RDFCore resolves to postpone this issue on the grounds that it
would require extensive changes to current spec, is not a critical
requirement for webont, that it would involve considering several
different approaches, taking time and consequent changes to
syntax draft, test cases, implementations and primer
SECONDED JJC
CARRIED with no objection or abstentions.

ACTION 2003-03-11#6, DB:  Respond to WEBONT on Hendler-01

[NOTE: hold off response until after Friday]

.....

hodder-01  RDF in HTML

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:09:02

The comments are accepted.

PROPOSED DB:
see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0032.html
SECONDED: GK
CARRIED with no objection or abstentions.

ACTION 2003-03-11#8, DB:  Respond to commentator on hodder-o1

[NOTE: hold off response until after Friday]

.....

krech-01   emptyPropertyElt ambiguity
jjc-01     rdfms-nested-bagIDs/test007.rdf

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:11:23

The points raised are accepted.

PROPOSED DB:
see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0033.html
SECONDED GK
CARRIED with no objection or abstentions.

ACTION 2003-03-11#9,  DB:  Respond to commentator on krech-01
ACTION 2003-03-11#10, DB:  Update documents as proposed in message (URI above)

.....

pfps-15    Say anything quote

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:16:59

see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0054.html

It was generally felt that the intent of the current wording, in its context,
was not likely to be misunderstood.  But some improvements to the wording
were discussed and broadly agreed.

PROPOSED PatH:  Frank has editorial discretion to amend wording in light of 
the comment
SECONDED EM
CARRIED with no objection and 1 abstention.

ACTION 2003-03-11#11, FM:  Update documents as proposed in message and 
discussion (URI above)
ACTION 2003-03-11#12, FM:  Respond to pfps-15

.....

danc-03    rdf/xml reification examples

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:37:13

PROPOSED Frank:  Frank has editorial discretion to amend wording in light
                  of the comment, per message cited below:
see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0054.html
SECONDED PatH
CARRIED with no objection and 1 abstention.

[[[Ooops, I notice actions not recorded in meeting.  The following are 
suggested
    on the assumption that Frank agrees to accept them:

ACTION 2003-03-11#?1, FM:  Update documents as proposed in message (URI above)
ACTION 2003-03-11#?2, FM:  Respond to danc-03
]]]

.....

pfps-17    namespace v vocabulary

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:46:21

PROPOSED FM: to change 'namespace' to 'vocabulary', except when
              specifically talking about XML namespaces
SECONDED DB
CARRIED with no objection or abstention.

ACTION 2003-03-11#13, FM:  Respond to pfps-17
ACTION 2003-03-11#14, FM:  Update documents as proposed
ACTION 2003-03-11#15, BWM: Re-post boilerplate for response to comments

Technically, "namespace name" is the correct term for "namespace URI [ref]"
(per http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/).



6: Issues to be considered next meeting

discussion: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-03-11  17:58:06

Proposals will be offered for the following issues to be discussed at
the next telecon:

PatH:  horrocks-01, pfps-01, qu-03

JJC:   pfps-23

GK:    williams-01, pfps-16, pfps-18, pfps-22, pfps-23

DaveB: timbl-01

---

Meeting closed

#g


-------------------
Graham Klyne
<GK@NineByNine.org>
PGP: 0FAA 69FF C083 000B A2E9  A131 01B9 1C7A DBCA CB5E
Received on Tuesday, 11 March 2003 15:32:18 EST

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