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Minutes for 2002-02-22 RDF Core Telecon

From: Aaron Swartz <me@aaronsw.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:41:36 -0600
To: RDF Core <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <B8A07C30.226EE%me@aaronsw.com>
[My sincere apologies for the delay in sending out the minutes. - Aaron]

Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0604
IRC Log: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2002-02-22

1: Allocate scribe

Aaron was scribe, with assistance from Jeremy.

2: Roll Call

Regrets: Dan Connolly, Dan Brickley
Present: Brian McBride (chair), Eric Miller, Dave Beckett, Jeremy Carroll,
Jos DeRoo, Jan Grant, Graham Klyne, Frank Manola, Steve Petschulat, Patrick
Stickler, Aaron Swartz, Mike Dean

3: Review Agenda

4: Next telecon (excluding f2f) - 10am Boston time, 01 Mar 2002

5: Review Minutes of 2002-02-15 telecon with correction

APPROVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0476

6: Confirm Status of Completed Actions

ACTION: 2002-01-18#3 jjc Analyze implications of allowing xml:base anywhere
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0516

ACTION: 2002-01-18#4 jjc Provide test cases for xml:base to illustrate any
issues
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0516

ACTION: 2002-02-08#2 Eric Arrange publication of model WD
Closed: http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-rdf-mt-20020214/

ACTION: 2002-02-09#7 Sergey/Patrick/PatH to prepare a proposal based on PatH
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0409

ACTION: 2002-02-15#2 bwm Consider holding teleconference(s) during F2F
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0564

ACTION: 2002-02-15#3 bwm Announce new Model Theory WD to appropriate lists:
rdf-logic, interest, ...
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Feb/0065
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2002Feb/0113

ACTION:  2002-02-15#9 DanC Write up rdf:Bag idea and send to list
Closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0483

7: face to face meeting
* Telecon arrangements
Eric noted that things were set up for a telecon on Monday and Tuesday at
the same time, same number and same room number.

* Meeting with I18N
Jeremy, Dave, Graham and others who wish will be meeting with the I18N WG
during the plenary at the beginning of Tuesday.

See:
  http://cgi.w3.org/Register/selectUser.pl?_w3c_meetingName=techplenary2002
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20020225-f2f/

8: Status of Test Cases WD
ACTION: 2001-11-30#3 Jan Grant Get access to test case areas of W3C site
Closed.
ACTION: 2002-01-11#2  JanG  post summary of Test Cases WD outstanding
updates to list.
Closed.
ACTION: 2002-01-11#1  bwm  persue CVS access for Jan with EM
Closed.

Jan has CVS working and is currently going thru previous minutes looking for
test cases to add to the WD. There was some discussion about some of the
negative entailments being more for human consumption than for machines, but
it was discussed that this was acceptable. Pat Hayes said he'd take alook at
the test cases.

9: Preparing for the f2f

See section 7.

10: Model Theory for Containers
ACTION 2002-02-22/1: PatH to update the model theory to state a semantics
for rdf:Bag and rdf:Alt which is the same as that for rdf:Seq.

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0072

11: Datatypes

DECISION 2002-02-22/2:
      The proposal should include support for the following idiom:

        <mary> <age> "10" .
        <age>  <range> <integer> .    # for some appropriate <integer>
                                      # and some appropriate <range>

Brian pointed out the specific ambiguity as to whether this was rdfs:range
or drange or something else.

DECISION 2002-02-22/3:
      That in case 1, the value of the age property is a 'string' which is
      constrained to conform to lexical space of a datatype indicated by
      <integer>, i.e. the node labeled "10" denotes the string "10".

Based on a Working Group vote, with Jeremy and Frank dissenting. Graham
noted a very slight preference for having 10 denote an integer. Pat Hayes
abstained.

DECISION 2002-02-22/4:
      That the doublet be dropped from the proposal (the rdf:value idiom).

Patrick Stickler: stab! stab! stab!

On number 4:
      That the datatype triple idiom be dropped from the proposal.
there was strong agreement that this idiom needed to be left in.

Pat Hayes commented that creating a model theory might be difficult with the
combination of decisions the Working Group had made, but said he would
research things and report back with more conclusive results.

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Feb/0359

12: Issue rdfms-fragments
See: http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-fragments

Aaron outlined his view of the problems, explaining that he felt this was an
inconsistency between the W3C specs and the IETF specs, leading to practical
problems, some more subtle than others. He emphasized that people like Roy
Fielding envisioned RDF's usage of URIs and designed the system to support
that use. He encouraged people to read Roy Fielding's dissertation[1], and
not to simply blow the issue off by saying that it's only relevant to
"traditional" Web tools like browsers and proxies.

[1] http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top.htm

The discussion continued after the end of the formal meeting, and several
people (notably Pat Hayes) said that they now understood the problem better.

Dan Connolly commented (on IRC) that "we can't (knowingly) put arch problems
in our specs."

13: Issue rdfms-identity-of-statements

Held over until F2F.

14: Provenance

Not covered. 
Received on Tuesday, 26 February 2002 00:41:40 EST

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