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Re: summary of reification?

From: Sergey Melnik <melnik@db.stanford.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:56:23 -0800
Message-ID: <3C618A67.7E418BEE@db.stanford.edu>
To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
CC: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Pat Hayes wrote:
> 
> >Brian,
> >
> >after your excellent job of summarizing datatyping periodically, I feel
> >a desire for your summary of reification, so once you get to it... ;)
> >
> >I did not follow the recent postings all too closely, but here is a
> >scoop of how reification is currently used in some commercial
> >applications I helped with.
> >
> >- (Reified) statements are first-class objects in the programming
> >language, just like resources and literals. For example, they can be
> >used in the object position of another statement. At the API and storage
> >level, the URI-identity of (reified) statements is irrelevant (no URIs
> >are used/generated).
> 
> OK
> 
> >
> >- Efficient exchange of RDF data that contains reified statements is
> >done using an alternative RDF syntax, which supports compact XML
> >representation of reified statements (I guess, the 4-triple form could
> >be used as well, but it's just waaay too verbose for exchange and needs
> >special care during parsing...)
> 
> That sounds like saying that reification does not use reification.
> The 4-triple form IS reification in RDF, right? If not, what do you
> mean by 'reification' here?
> 
> >- Existence of a reified statement does not imply the existence of the
> >corresponding asserted statement.
> 
> OK, but...
> 
> >Each asserted statement can be viewed
> >as also (implicitly) existing in its reified form.
> 
> ....what does that mean, 'implicitly existing' ? Is it a valid
> inference from a triple to its reified form? I hope not, see below.

Well, yes. Technically one can imagine that all (reified) statements
that can possibly be constructed (including infinite-depth nesting)
exist in the graph in some form. As long as reified statements do not
appear in any of the asserted ones, they can be considered "transparent"
in the model theory (i.e., do not appear in the interpretation), so that
their existence or absence does not convey any additional information. 

> >The predicates
> >rdf:subject, rdf:predicate and rdf:object and never used. A query like
> >(X, rdf:subject, <uri>) is stated as X = (<uri>, wildcard, wildcard)
> >instead.
> 
> What a VERY good idea. In other words, RDF reification is not used.

The 4-triple mechanism is not used, but reification is! The bindings of
X above can appear at object or subject positions of other statements.
 
> >In the above approach, neither bNodes, nor additional 4 triples are ever
> >used for dealing with reification. In this perspective, our decision on
> >reification would probably have no impact on the implementation. Maybe
> >we should not be all too academic and/or religious about how to
> >formalize reification properly. We could just simply move it out of the
> >way quickly and focus on making the use of reification more
> >interoperable and efficient (specifically, I hate using an alternative
> >syntax!).
> 
> Or, better, why not just trash it, since apparently nobody uses it anyway.

If you mean trashing reification, I won't not put it this way.
Reification is used, and we simply need a way to make this use
interoperable. If, on the other hand, you are talking about my
alternative syntax, it is hard to trash either because it's the only
effective way for exchanging RDF data with reified statements in it that
I'm aware of, and constututes a part of a transfer protocol deployed in
a commercial system.

> >I see two ways of how the semantics of reification could be attacked:
> >
> >1. Explain the semantics using bNode + 4-triple constructs. Applications
> >are free to use a compact representation. If statements are used as
> >first-class objects, they can be treated just as some kind of bNodes.
> >The API-level identity of such bNodes is functionally determined by
> >their (s,p,o)-description. Alternatively, the applications can generate
> >exactly one such bNode for each (s,p,o) etc. Same trick could be applied
> >for  dealing with functionally determined bNodes in the model theory.
> 
> No trick is needed. The ordinary MT already would treat the 4-triples
> in this way already; reification is semantically transparent, on this
> view. Which is another way of saying that we are trashing it. After
> all, there's no way to stop anyone writing those 4-triples if they
> want to, right? Trashing it doesn't make it illegal, it just says
> that we aren't saying anything particular about what it means: its
> not a language feature, its just a way you might want to write some
> RDF. Go ahead if y'all feel like it.

With a developer's hat on, I don't care much what the deep theoretic
meaning of reification is. The use scenario that I illustrated above
seems quite common among RDF implementors. We need a way of exchanging
reified statements between applications in some standard way. Current
4-triple reification (and it's straightforward translation to the
RDF/XML syntax) is prohibitive for all but toy applications.

Sergey

-- 
E-Mail:      melnik@db.stanford.edu (Sergey Melnik)
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Address:     Room 438, Gates, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA


> Pat
> --
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Received on Wednesday, 6 February 2002 14:27:12 EST

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