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Re: ordering of multiple X509Certificates

From: Tom Gindin <tgindin@us.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:55:13 -0500
To: Joel Hockey <joel.hockey@qsipayments.com>, "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <dee3@torque.pothole.com>
Cc: w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF58E663DF.01EB4CB0-ON85256B76.0044D34B@pok.ibm.com>

      Joel:

      This lack of meaningful ordering is not something XMLDSIG originated.
RFC's 2315 and 2630 (PKCS#7 and CMS) do not even permit the message creator
to impose any meaningful ordering of the certificates in SignedData, since
they are defined as having ASN.1 type SET.  A standards-compliant ASN.1
engine will sort such a set in ascending order by DER encoding, which in
this case is equivalent to using the certificate length as a primary sort
key.
      Anyway, you're supposed to construct chains by lining up one
certificate's subject field with another's issuer field.  There are
permitted to be multiple chains, however.  A signer can even do something
like include multiple cross-certificates of the first or second level
issuer, with chains for each one.  The following rules may help you
construct the structure you'll need:
1.    If a certificate's subject field does not match the issuer field of
any other certificate in the list, it should be an end-entity certificate.
If it happens to be an X509v3 certificate with a key usage field containing
"crlSign" without either nonRepudiation or digitalSignature, it is a
CRL-signing certificate instead.
2.    The structures of certificates you create should be trees (most
commonly chains, but not always) of certificates whose base element is an
end-entity certificate or a CRL-signing certificate.  Each ascending level
consists of those certificates whose subject name matches the issuer name
of the certificate at the level below (you can go upward from multiple
certificates at a level).
3.    Most commonly, all end-entity certificates in the list have the same
public key.  Personally, I don't remember what you should do if they don't
except try to verify the signature with each included public key and then
ignore chains starting with any key other than the one used.
4.    CRL-signing certificates are used to verify CRL's, not the signed XML
document.
5.    Once one chain through any tree verifies, the signature is accepted.

      Does the group consider that it's mandatory to accept signatures with
certificate lists which contain end-entity certificates with differing
public keys?

            Tom Gindin


"Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <dee3@torque.pothole.com>@w3.org on 03/07/2002
08:39:29 PM

Sent by:    w3c-ietf-xmldsig-request@w3.org


To:    Joel Hockey <joel.hockey@qsipayments.com>
cc:    w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org
Subject:    Re: ordering of multiple X509Certificates


Hi,

From:  Joel Hockey <joel.hockey@qsipayments.com>
Message-ID:
<CF2BC135FB37D51197D400508BAF5217010724C4@aubnmsx01.qsi.com.au>
To:  w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org
Date:  Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +1000

>Hi,
>
>I have a query about the case where multiple X509Certificate elements are
>sent with a signature.  I couldn't find any information in the spec
>concerning the order that they should be sent in, and I couldn't find any
>mention of this in the mailing list archive.  I imagine this is
intentional
>left out of the spec as it does not require any KeyInfo and leaves all
this
>up to the application level.

I guess sending certs does "not require any KeyInfo" as you say, but
if you are not sending them inside or referred to from the Signature,
then what format or order they are in is an application matter outside
the scope of the standard. If you are sending them inside a
Signature/KeyInfo/X509Data, then Section 4.4.4 gives the constraints
and, as it says, "No ordering is implied by the above constraints."

Implementations that depend on what order certs appear in a message
strike me as brittle and non-interoperable.

>I would expect that when multiple certificates are sent, they should be
sent
>as a chain (same as how an ssl server must send certifictes - rfc 2246),
>with the sender's cert coming first and each following cert directly
>certifying the one before it.

Better cert handling systems of which I am aware store them all into
some sort of cache with multiple indexes and don't care what order
they were in or, if there are multiple messages or multiple places
certs can appear in a message, how the certs are distributed between
those messages and places, as long as you don't flush the cache and
all the certificates you need are really there when you try to
validate a key or whatever. (ditto re CRLs) In any case, the issue has
been decided for XMLDSIG and the order is not constrained in KeyInfo.

>Does the spec actually mention anything about this, or does anyone else
have
>any thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joel

Donald
Received on Friday, 8 March 2002 07:55:56 GMT

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