W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > site-comments@w3.org > October 2009

Re: New W3C Web Site Launched

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:08:06 -0500
To: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
Message-Id: <C8403908-320B-469C-B11F-F50C83552A95@w3.org>
Cc: michael.hausenblas@deri.org, site-comments@w3.org, chairs@w3.org, w3c-ac-forum@w3.org

On 14 Oct 2009, at 2:00 PM, T.V Raman wrote:

>
> The reson to put the RDF-level metadata into W3CSite documents is
> not for you to use it --- it is for others to build off the
> semantics you publish.

If we publish the RDF directly (which we do), does that not accomplish  
the same goal?

Here's the RDF:
   http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/tr.rdf
   http://www.w3.org/2000/04/mem-news/public-groups.rdf

There's more for the talks, and so on.

>
> Basically I believe this is in fact the true challenge of the
> Open Semantic Web ever happening -- everyone understands the
> value of metadata when it compes to processing and publishing
> information they possess; the jury is still out on as to whether
> semantics when available will be published alongisde the content
> for consumers to leverage.
>
> The current failure to  do this on the W3C site --- laudible
> though your reasons might be --- definitely casts a vote on the
> above question.

I'm sorry you conclude that because we didn't use every available  
technology at once, we have failed to show the utility of the ones we  
do use.

  _ Ian

>
> Ian Jacobs writes:
>> On 14 Oct 2009, at 1:21 PM, T.V Raman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> somewhat  misses the point of the original poster, who was
>>> pointing at the years of effort in bringing RDF-level metadata
>>> integration into Web pages.
>>>
>>> I have no doubt that W3C  uses RDF internally, or that a lot of
>>> such content is written first in N3;) --- what this site could
>>> validate --- or repudiate (for that matter) is the feasability of
>>> expecting site owners to easily make available the metadata they
>>> have about their content  within the content of Web pages.
>>
>> We _could_ have done that, but we already had the data available as  
>> RDF.
>>
>> The good thing about the Semantic Web stack is that there are
>> different tools to meet different needs.
>> You can put data in documents (RDFa, GRDDL)), create data stories
>> (RDF), create databases accessible through queries (SPARQL).
>>
>> We saw no value at this time to port some our existing RDF data into
>> documents only to extract it again in order to use it.
>>
>>  _ Ian
>>
>>
>>> Ian Jacobs writes:
>>>> On 14 Oct 2009, at 2:50 AM, Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian,
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, very nice job re design and usability. However, I think we
>>>>> should
>>>>> also take into account what our 'customers' think [1], [2]:
>>>>>
>>>>> "so, are #semanticweb standards too complicated when even the new
>>>>> #w3c site
>>>>> doesn't use them? #stopsnakeoil"
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>
>>>> We use RDF all over the place internally to manage the site. The  
>>>> RDF
>>>> that we use
>>>> is public:
>>>>
>>>> Group data:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2000/04/mem-news/public-groups.rdf
>>>>
>>>> Technical reports data:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/tr.rdf
>>>>
>>>> And there's lots more, such as the Talks data.
>>>>
>>>> We don't use RDFa where we have RDF source data.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we could do more (e.g., a sparql endpoint for TR  
>>>> searches),
>>>> and we are likely
>>>> to do more.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "@iand apparently all of them: No (obvious) RDF export, no SPARQL
>>>>> API. Just
>>>>> some (broken!) hCalendar items."
>>>>>
>>>>> This is indeed a poor message we send out - why don't we eat our  
>>>>> own
>>>>> dogfood? We have a couple of nice standards (RDFa, GRDDL, etc.) in
>>>>> this area
>>>>> and should well be able to demonstrate that we are able to use  
>>>>> them,
>>>>> IMHO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for spoiling the party, but given the broad uptake of  
>>>>> semantic
>>>>> technologies in the governmental area (US, UK), the eCommerce  
>>>>> domain
>>>>> (GoodRelations), linked data stuff and Google and Yahoo!  
>>>>> processing
>>>>> structured data, I can't seriously explain to my colleagues or  
>>>>> other
>>>>> W3C
>>>>> customers why we don't have structured data (preferably in RDF)
>>>>> available at
>>>>> the new W3C site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts, anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>    Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://twitter.com/bengee/status/4856670048
>>>>> [2] http://twitter.com/bengee/status/4856830531
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas
>>>>> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
>>>>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>>>>> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
>>>>> Ireland, Europe
>>>>> Tel. +353 91 495730
>>>>> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
>>>>> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:07:47 -0500
>>>>>> To: W3C Members <w3c-ac-members@w3.org>
>>>>>> Cc: <chairs@w3.org>
>>>>>> Subject: New W3C Web Site Launched
>>>>>> Resent-From: <chairs@w3.org>
>>>>>> Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:07:53 +0000
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Advisory Committee Representatives and Chairs,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today W3C launched its new Web site:
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also launched the new Member site:
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/Member/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that you will find the new sites more usable. You will
>>>>>> notice
>>>>>> that some pages are missing content; we plan to continue to add
>>>>>> content over time and invite your contributions (especially from
>>>>>> Working Groups).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I expect that over the next few days we will be fixing bugs in
>>>>>> style
>>>>>> sheets, and so forth. Feel free to send comments to site-
>>>>>> comments@w3.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian Jacobs, Head of W3C Communications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)    http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
>>>>>> Tel:                                      +1 718 260 9447
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)    http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
>>>> Tel:                                      +1 718 260 9447
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)    http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
>> Tel:                                      +1 718 260 9447
>

--
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)    http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
Tel:                                      +1 718 260 9447
Received on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 19:08:12 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 24 October 2012 16:21:32 GMT