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Re: indoor / interior ontology

From: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:31:42 +0100
Cc: Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>, semantic-web@w3.org
Message-Id: <3223AF16-E1A0-403E-AC0B-A649BC62F080@ebusiness-unibw.org>
To: Alexander Garcia Castro <alexgarciac@gmail.com>
Hi Alexander:

Philipp asked for an ontology for a topic. You said: "Try my tool." I  
said "Your tool gives bad advice when used for a task similar to  
Philipp's".

No matter what the real aim of your ontology repository is, you  
suggested to use it for finding a suitable ontology. And I say that  
when someone searches for concepts readily defined in broadly adopted,  
valid Web ontologies, then your tool should return those. In 3 of 3  
tests, your tool fails to give good results.

We find promotions of tools frequently on this list, and it is  
perfectly okay to bring in your own work into a suitable discussion.  
But then again please accept my frank comment that sending someone to  
try the search function of your repository for finding a suitable  
ontology for a given topic is BAD advice.

My criticism will likely hold for the search functionality in many  
other ontology repositories.

Part of the problem of Semantic Web research is that immature bits and  
pieces of a potential solution are advertised as if they were a  
solution to a given problem. Then potential adopters try, fail, and  
are lost for the vision of the Semantic Web.

We may all be and all have been sinners in this sense over the past  
decade, but it is crucial to stop and convert.

Best

Martin



On 04.12.2010, at 15:44, Alexander Garcia Castro wrote:

> Dear  Martin, your email is a nice idea but
>
>  "my tool", ORATE, is just an ontology repository. should u have  
> ideas for improving ontology repositories there are venues such as  
> the Open Ontology Repository, ONTOLOG; recently there were two  
> workshops on major conferences (ESWC, ISWC) addressing the problem  
> of ontology repositories. I am sure the CfP must have fallen in your  
> inbox at least once as both CfP were distributed in this mailing list.
>
>  MH: 2. Trying your tool for "blog entry" or "post" does not yield  
> SIOC, "person" does not yield FOAF, and neither "product" nor  
> "store" points to GoodRelations.
>
> It has never been within the objectives of our work to point to  
> products or "storing points to GoodRelations". Again, Martin, as I  
> can see that your "GoodRelations" are a cornerstone in the semantic  
> web -one artifact without which relationships will hardly be  
> achieved, I suggest you raise these issues in the form of a paper,  
> prototype, etc. illustrating how could ontology repositories full  
> fill your needs, and those of the semantic web. I am sure we will  
> all find your enlightenment interesting.
>
> MH: To be frank, I think your tool does currently more harm than  
> good (same as many other premature ontology search tools), because  
> they send potential adopters of semantic technology into the  
> completely wrong direction
>
> I am not sure how to answer this, should it be sufficient to say  
> that the tool is not a search tool, as I said before it is a  
> repository. The "good" that may come from it depends on: how u use  
> it, and how u extend it -yes Martin, extending it is actually  
> possible, in this way you may get it to work and address your  
> specific needs.
>
> To be frank, your comments are over the tone and do more harm than  
> good (same as whenever people are quick typing) because your  
> comments address a completely different point to that of "my tool".  
> I suggest you do some reading about ontology repositories, propose  
> the modifications you consider, develop the corresponding prototype  
> and then start typing on mailing lists.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org 
> > wrote:
> Hi Alexander:
>
> Your tool is a nice idea, but ...
>
> 1. Ontologies are not just specification documents available  
> somewhere on the Web, but the combination of such a specification  
> and an ecosystem/community. Searching for an ontology without  
> considering the ecosystems of candidate matches makes no sense. It's  
> like Google without PageRank and random ordering of results.
>
> 2. Trying your tool for "blog entry" or "post" does not yield SIOC,  
> "person" does not yield FOAF, and neither "product" nor "store"  
> points to GoodRelations.
>
> To be frank, I think your tool does currently more harm than good  
> (same as many other premature ontology search tools), because they  
> send potential adopters of semantic technology into the completely  
> wrong direction.
>
> Best
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On 03.12.2010, at 16:30, Alexander Garcia Castro wrote:
>
> You could check here, this repository probably has some ontos for  
> that.
>
> http://ontologies.informatik.uni-bremen.de/
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de 
> > wrote:
> Hi there,
>
>  I have a short question: is anybody aware of an ontology modelling  
> interiors of houses, modelling for example the objects, furniture  
> etc. typically contained in indoor rooms, etc.?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Philipp.
>
> -- 
> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
> Semantic Computing Group
> Excellence Cluster - Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
> University of Bielefeld
>
> Phone: +49 521 106 12249
> Fax: +49 521 106 12412
> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>
> Room H-127
> Morgenbreede 39
> 33615 Bielefeld
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Alexander Garcia
> http://www.alexandergarcia.name/
> http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/75943.html
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgarciac
> Postal address:
> Alexander Garcia, Tel.: +49 421 218 64211
> Universitšt Bremen
> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5
> D-28359 Bremen
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Alexander Garcia
> http://www.alexandergarcia.name/
> http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/75943.html
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgarciac
> Postal address:
> Alexander Garcia, Tel.: +49 421 218 64211
> Universitšt Bremen
> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5
> D-28359 Bremen
Received on Saturday, 4 December 2010 15:32:14 GMT

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