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XProc Minutes 3 July 2008

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:00:49 -0400
To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2y74dv27y.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-minutes

W3C[1]

                                   - DRAFT -

                            XML Processing Model WG

03 Jul 2008

   Agenda[2]

   See also: IRC log[3]

Attendees

   Present
           Norm, Paul, Rui, Henry, Vojtech, Mohamed

   Regrets
           Richard

   Chair
           Norm

   Scribe
           Norm

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Accept this agenda?
         2. Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
         3. Next meeting: telcon 10 July 2008?
         4. Comments on latest editor's draft
         5. XSLT functions in XProc expressions
         6. Consider schema imports
         7. Any other business
     * Summary of Action Items

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Accept this agenda?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-agenda

   Accepted.

  Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

   -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/26-minutes

   Accepted.

  Next meeting: telcon 10 July 2008?

   Henry gives regrets.

  Comments on latest editor's draft

   Norm summarizes his recent changes wrt xpath-version

   No other comments.

  XSLT functions in XProc expressions

   ->
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0044.html

   Norm summarizes, he'd like to forbid them all.

   Mohamed pushes back and suggests that we need generate-id() especially for
   XPath 1.0 implementatios.

   Norm: I'd prefer the simplicity of forbidding them all and come back to it
   if someone demonstrates a real need for it.

   Mohamed: That's ok for me.

   Proposal: XProc processors are not required to implement any functions
   defined only in XSLT.

   Accepted.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to add information about which functions must be
   implemented and note that XSLT functions do not have to be implemented.
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action01[7]]

  Consider schema imports

   ->
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0047.html

   Henry: It's very clear that the winged hourse allows you to find the type
   hierarchy. It doesn't let you do things with substitution groups, for
   example.

   Norm: So we couldn't do element construction (which we don't),
   substitution groups, or the validate expression.

   Henry: We could put schema import in, identify it as a feature at risk,
   and then we could remove it. If we leave it out and ask for feedback, we
   could be pushed back to Last Call again.

   Norm: Yes. I suppose the best thing we can do is add the feature and make
   it optional. So basic processors can skip it. Schema-aware processors will
   be able to use types, etc. And identify it as a feature that might get
   removed if there's strong opposition.

   Henry: Seems like a good compromise to me.

   Norm: I think we should forbid references to non-builtin schema types if
   it doesn't support schema import.

   Henry: I disagree. I just want to grab an XPath 2 library and use the
   winged horse.

   Norm: In XSLT, you can't refer to a hatsize unless you've imported the
   schema that defines hatsize.

   Mohamed: Where do we use this element?

   Norm: At the top of your pipeline.

   Mohamed: In XSLT, it's clear that when we manipulate a sequence of
   documents, they are related. In XProc, that's not the case.
   ... Importing a schema for all the pipeline, even if there will be
   conflicts.

   Norm is confused.

   Mohamed: Imagine I have a pipeline that's supposed to handle XHTML 1,
   XHTML 2, and XHTML 3. They're all in the same namespace, but they have
   different definitions.

   Norm: How will you check?

   Mohamed: By looking for an element, html:h, for example

   Norm: So you don't need a schema for that

   Mohamed: But in each branch, I might want to be able to do tests with the
   right types.
   ... We could add schema-import everywhere that p:namespaces is allowed.
   Importing may not be sufficient if we want to handle all the cases.
   ... But if we just want to handle some of the cases, and we want to
   support substitution groups, then it's probably ok to just put it at the
   top.

   Proposal: We'll add p:schema-import, allowed at the top of a pipeline, to
   provide schema definitions. This is an optional feature.
   ... We'll note that it may not be sufficient to handle all the possible
   cases where a pipeline needs to check the types of elements that come from
   documents using different versions of the namespace.
   ... We'll leave open for the moment the question of whether or not it's
   legal to refer to t:hatsize without having imported the schema that
   defines it.

   <ht> I've sent another email -- Norm is right

   So scratch the last bit. It is an error if you write an xpath who's type
   is not in the static context.

   Accepted.

   <scribe> ACTION: Norm to implement p:schema-import. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action02[9]]

   Mohamed: I think we're opening a new box that may have a lot of
   side-effects on components.
   ... What happens to the context passed to the steps?

   Henry: If it's not the static context for xpath evaluation that's effected
   by schema import, what is?

   Norm: It is the static context. But what about the static context for
   steps.

   Mohamed: I think this won't help if we want to go to last call quickly.

   Norm: Indeed.

   Henry: We can add this and make it an optional feature. We can also mark
   it as a feature that is at risk.
   ... That way we can proceed from last call without it.
   ... So if no one says, I require this, then we can get rid of it without
   going back.

   <scribe> ACTION: Editor to write it up and see what it looks like.
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action03[10]]

   Vojtech: It may be difficult to specify the behavior when importing other
   subpipelines.

   Mohamed: Visibility will definitely be an issue.

   Henry: The analogy with XSLT is our friend. Whatever they do, we should
   do.

  Any other business

   Out of time.

   Adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Editor to write it up and see what it looks like. [recorded
   in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action03[11]]
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to add information about which functions must be
   implemented and note that XSLT functions do not have to be implemented.
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action01[12]]
   [NEW] ACTION: Norm to implement p:schema-import. [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action02[13]]
    
   [End of minutes]

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

   [1] http://www.w3.org/
   [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-agenda
   [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-irc
   [7] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [9] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [10] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [11] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action03
   [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action01
   [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html#action02
   [14] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
   [15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl[14] version 1.133 (CVS
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    $Date: 2008/07/07 20:59:10 $

Received on Monday, 7 July 2008 21:01:35 GMT

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