- From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:13:36 -0500
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <m2oczi4ou7.fsf@nwalsh.com>
See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes
[1]W3C
- DRAFT -
XML Processing Model WG
11 Dec 2008
[2]Agenda
See also: [3]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Norm, Paul, Mohamed, Vojtech, Andrew, Richard
Regrets
Henry
Chair
Norm
Scribe
Norm
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Accept this agenda?
2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
3. [7]Next meeting: telcon 18 Dec 2008?
4. [8]Meeting dates for the rest of December.
5. [9]Review of comments received so far on our CR
6. [10]024: Objection to XProc (p:with-option/p:with-param)
7. [11]UUID/Hash/form-encode
8. [12]016: How does www-form-urlencode/decode deal with parameters
in a namespace?
9. [13]020: p:www-form-urldecode clarifications
10. [14]027: http-request, redirection, and cookies
11. [15]Any other business?
* [16]Summary of Action Items
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accept this agenda?
-> [17]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-agenda
Accepted.
Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
-> [18]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/20-minutes
Accepted.
Next meeting: telcon 18 Dec 2008?
No regrets given.
Meeting dates for the rest of December.
Skip 25 Dec and 1 Jan; next meeting 8 Jan.
Review of comments received so far on our CR
-> [19]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/
024: Objection to XProc (p:with-option/p:with-param)
-> [20]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/#C024
Norm attempts to summarize the thread
Richard: Presumably a sufficiently clever processor can look at the
expression and work out if it needs it or not.
Norm summarizes his position.
Vojtech: If we change to make p:empty the default, then the no context
error is ok, but that you'd have to name the steps and make an explicit
pipe into the option binding is the major argument against this change.
... David made a good point in saying that in the majority of XPath
expressions don't use the context.
... I think that's sort of right.
Norm: In most cases where you don't need the document, you can probably
use the shortcut syntax.
... In cases where you can't use the shortcut syntax, the question is
which is more common, expressions that do or don't need the context.
Vojtech: We could make it more explicit in the spec.
Mohamed: When we don't need any context, we can use the shortcut syntax.
When you need the context, we can say that you need it for two different
reasons.
... One is to evaluate variables and the other is to evaluate nodes from
the document.
... What we can say is that the context of the shortcut syntax is allowed
to reference variables but not the context.
Norm: In the shortcut syntax, you only get literal values, you don't get
any variables at all.
Mohamed: I'm ok with the status quo.
... I don't think making the proposed change is a good option.
Richard: Is there anywhere else where there is a port that doesn't get
bound to the default readable port by defalt?
Norm: No, I don't think so.
Richard: So this would be an odd inconsistency: a place where the default
for the binding is not the same as the default everywhere else.
Vojtech: What about parameter input ports?
Norm: Yeah, the binding rules for parameter input ports are a little
different.
... Anyone need further discussion to work out what they think the right
thing to do is?
None heard.
Norm: Is there anyone on the call that supports changing the status quo?
None heard.
<scribe> ACTION: Norm to reply to the commenter on behalf of the working
group. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
UUID/Hash/form-encode
Comments 015, 019
Vojtech: Does UUID generate one uuid, or one for each replacement?
Norm: It generates one and uses it everywhere.
Vojtech: Then the question is, should these be XPath extension functions
or steps?
Norm: And you also asked if they should just return a c:result with the
value.
Vojtech: Yes. I think it would be much more useful if it did, because you
usually want to use it to construct a full URL.
Norm: Yes, perhaps that would have been better...
Mohamed: I made a proposal like this on 24 April.
<MoZ>
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Apr/0065.html
<MoZ> [23]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/05/01-minutes
Vojtech: The main problem I have with this is that it's sort of two
string-replace steps, so it's innefficient.
Norm: Yep.
Vojtech: It seems very strange.
Norm: Yes, it's strange. We probably ought to have done it the way you
suggest. But is it worth going back to Last Call?
Paul: If it's a change we really want to make, I think we should see if we
can do it without going back to Last Call.
Vojtech: You can simulate what I was proposing by using your own empty
c:result as the input.
Norm: So, worst case, if we don't change anything, we've got something
that's a little odd but not actively harmful.
... Let's sse if we can summarize where we are. We might like to change
the way p:uuid, p:hash, and p:www-form-url-encode
... so that they simply return a c:result with the result, instead of
behaving like string-replace. However, you can simulate
... that behavior yourself by using a c:result as the input. So there's no
critical difference in functionality, it's mostly a question of
aesthetics.
Norm: I propose that we leave the status quo, but try not to repeat this
error in the future
Accepted.
016: How does www-form-urlencode/decode deal with parameters in a namespace?
First question, how does www-form-urldecode deal with parameter names that
contain colons?
Vojtech: I don't think the spec says anything about that.
... We can define a dynamic error.
Norm: Or we could translate the ":" into some other character like "_"
Vojtech: I'm reluctant to try to make some possibly complex rules for
translations.
Norm: Anyone think it's a bad idea to make it a dynamic error?
No one says so.
Norm: We can say that for urldecode, if the resulting name is not a valid
NCName, that's an error.
Everone seems happy with that.
Norm: Then what do we do for encoding, we could just use the localname.
Voytech: Then you may end up with duplicatews
Norm: Yep, that's true.
Vojtech: Sometimes you don't have a prefix at all, so you'd have to
manufacture them.
Norm: Presumably that completely defeats the purpose 99% of the time.
... Any other proposals besides just using the localname?
None heard.
Vojtech: In most cases when you want to use form-urlencode, it's to create
simple request strings. If you want ot encode parameters in a namesapce
with prefixes, then you're doing something weird.
Norm: Right. You can't use these convenience steps if you're operating
outside their range.
... So, go with the localname?
... Any objections?
None heard.
Accepted.
020: p:www-form-urldecode clarifications
Vojtech: It says if any parameter name occurs more than once, the result
will contain more than one c:param, but it doesn't say what order they
occur in.
Norm: Right.
... Proposal: the document order of the c:params will correspond to the
occurrence of parameters reading the input string from left to right.
Accepted.
027: http-request, redirection, and cookies
Norm summarizes the issue
Some discussion.
Norm: So what I'm hearing is, we expect p:http-request to follow
redirections, handle cookies, etc., as described in the HTTP and related
specs, but the behavior of p:document and friends is implementation
defined with respect to this behavior.
Mohamed: We can follow XSLT and Schema that don't say anything about that.
Richard: Doesn't anyone follow redirections? It doesn't seem reasonable to
not follow redirecgts.
Norm: Ok, maybe it's just cookies.
<scribe> ACTION: Norm to investigate what the features in question
actually are. [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
Any other business?
None heard.
Adjourned.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to investigate what the features in question actually
are. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to reply to the commenter on behalf of the working
group. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
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References
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4. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#agenda
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6. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item02
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10. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item06
11. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item07
12. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item08
13. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item09
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15. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item11
16. file:///projects/w3c/WWW/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-minutes.html#ActionSummary
17. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/12/11-agenda
18. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/20-minutes
19. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/
20. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/#C024
21. http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action01
22. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Apr/0065.html
23. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/05/01-minutes
24. http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action02
25. http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action02
26. http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-xproc-minutes.html#action01
27. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
28. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Thursday, 11 December 2008 17:14:18 UTC