W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xml-binary@w3.org > November 2004

Re: Non-XML binary formats.

From: Stephen D. Williams <sdw@lig.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:23:54 -0500
Message-ID: <41ABA17A.7010001@lig.net>
To: Paul Thorpe <thorpe@oss.com>
Cc: bob@wyman.us, 'David Ryan' <david@einet.com.au>, public-xml-binary@w3.org

That's great, what about:

ISO 8601 (calendar date reference)  108 CHF

ISO 6903 (Real Decimal Spec)  67 CHF

ISO 2022 character encoding 142 CHF

ISO 10646 (UCS, directly related to Unicode) 110 CHF

I'm sure I missed a number of other references that are needed.  
Pointers to free versions of those would be helpful.  What about a map 
of dependent standards?

I tend to think that the encoding aspects of ASN.1 work should be 
useful, but then I closely examine the encoding for reals and find that 
it is not aligned with the current thinking of many that they want to 
directly transport IEEE and other native formats in a reader-makes-right 

A different and more fundamental issue is that strong schema orientation 
is no longer considered the only or necessarily the best way to work.  A 
number of useful and highly desirable properties, including being able 
to avoid schemas, have been derived from actual use cases.  These 
requirements include many things that don't seem possible with ASN.1 
related standards and technology, or with most other approaches.  It 
makes sense to consider what solutions might answer a more broad set of 
requirements and principles while learning everything possible from 
existing methods.


Paul Thorpe wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
>>After 20+ years, ASN.1 related software and standards haven't evolved
>>and become available in ways that satisfy many current requirements or
>>developers.  There are many reasons for this.
>>Could you point me to free, public specifications of those encoding
>>format details and the ASN.1 schema definition semantics?
>The complete set of ASN.1 standards documents are available free from the
>ITU-T SG17 website.  The URL is:
>The X.680 and X.690 series of documents make up the complete ASN.1
>standard.  This includes X.693 (XML encoding rules) and X.694 (Mapping W3C
>XML schema definitions into ASN.1).
>Paul E. Thorpe                                 Toll Free    : 1-888-OSS-ASN1
>OSS Nokalva                                    International: 1-732-302-0750
>Email: thorpe@oss.com                          Tech Support : 1-732-302-9669
>http://www.oss.com                             Fax          : 1-732-302-0023
>>Bob Wyman wrote:
>>>David Ryan wrote:
>>>>I'd be interested if anyone is working on, or knows of
>>>>binary formats with similar characteristics of binary XML
>>>>but is not based on XML?
>>>	The encoding formats that have been defined for ASN.1 are the
>>>"classic" binary formats that you would want to study. ASN.1, the "abstract
>>>syntax notation 1", has been around for something like 20 years now and can
>>>be used to define a wide variety of formats including text based formats
>>>like XML as well as the binary formats BER, PER, DER, etc. ASN.1 is most
>>>commonly known as the schema language for SNMP, X.500 Security Certificates,
>>>etc. Also, ASN.1 is relied on heavily by the telecommunications industry.
>>>	In my opinion, the most logical thing for the W3C to do is accept
>>>ASN.1 as an XML Schema language (it's use as one is defined by international
>>>ISO standards) and to rely on the 20 years of development by the ASN.1
>>>community in developing and supporting binary formats. We don't need
>>>yet-another-standard format and it is unlikely that any new effort is going
>>>to be able to satisfy any larger community then the ASN.1 effort has been
>>>able to address in 20 years of listening to and responding to requirements.
>>>		bob wyman
>>swilliams@hpti.com http://www.hpti.com Per: sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
>>Stephen D. Williams 703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax 20147-4622 AIM: sdw

swilliams@hpti.com http://www.hpti.com Per: sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax 20147-4622 AIM: sdw
Received on Monday, 29 November 2004 22:22:17 UTC

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