W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-webid@w3.org > November 2011

Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:16:44 -0500
Message-ID: <4EC1772C.60906@openlinksw.com>
To: public-xg-webid@w3.org
On 11/14/11 2:59 PM, Peter Williams wrote:
> i opened my wordpress.com about page for editing, leaving only the 
> <title> element from the previous post. I then edited in suggested 
> material.
>
> Wordpress doesnt like the material, reducing it to the following, upon 
> publication.
>
> <span style="display:hidden;">
>
> <div class="rdf2rdfa">
> <div class="description">
> <div>
> <div class="description">
> <div />
> </div>
> </div>
> <div>
> <div class="description">
> <div />
> </div>
> </div>
> <div>
> <div class="description">
> <div />
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </span>
> Wordpress wont LET ME publish the RDFa.
> I have not got yet to the point where I can refer to it, as it doesnt 
> exist yet. Common or garden web2.0 culture wont LET me publish data. 
> Its not a matter of idealism, yet; it just doesnt work with the web 
> that (consumer) folks have to work with.
> Now, im hoping someone knows a magic switch in the wordpress-cloud 
> tenant config - that enables a wordpress site to publish a little graph.
Peter,

The magic switch doesn't exist.

You have to make a choice here, really.

Again, have you looked at what we do re. putting the fingerprint of the 
claims based security token in the post via AtomPub?

> Im working up the nerve to host my own wordpress server (in microsoft 
> webmatrix beta 2 hosting platform on IIS7, whose sample app already 
> comes with OAUTH, openid, facebook, yahoo, twitter, live, etc 
> BUILTIN). Perhaps, as "full" administrator I can tweak the settings so 
> its all less paranoid.

Full admin might be an option, but then what have you really gained? I 
thought your quest was about really simple and non disruptive entry 
point for WebID exploitation.

Kingsley
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: mischa@mmt.me.uk
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:09:24 +0000
> CC: baptiste33@gmail.com; home_pw@msn.com; public-xg-webid@w3.org
> To: henry.story@bblfish.net
> Subject: Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> inline ...
> On 14 Nov 2011, at 12:35, Henry Story wrote:
>
>     Thanks Mischa,
>
>     If that works, then I wonder if the problem with our RDFa example
>     on http://webid.info/spec#rdfa-html-notation is that we place the
>     namespaces in the <html> root element. Perhaps an example that
>     places the namespaces in the div as you do below would make it
>     easier to think of. Is that why Baptiste Lafontaine believed that
>     one could not add RDFa to Wordpress?
>
>
> Yeah, perhaps that is the issue, as far as I am aware there is no need 
> to put the namespace declarations in the <html> element, am sure my 
> example works too.
>
> Regarding your example, I am not sure it is ideal for when I try and 
> convert it to triples I get the following:
>
> <> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> "Joe" .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type> 
> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#RSAPublicKey> .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#modulus> "\n       
>  00:cb:24:ed:85:d6:4d:79:4b:69:c7:01:c1:86:ac:\n       
>  c0:59:50:1e:85:60:00:f6:61:c9:32:04:d8:38:0e:\n       
>  07:19:1c:5c:8b:36:8d:2a:c3:2a:42:8a:cb:97:03:\n       
>  98:66:43:68:dc:2a:86:73:20:22:0f:75:5e:99:ca:\n       
>  2e:ec:da:e6:2e:8d:15:fb:58:e1:b7:6a:e5:9c:b7:\n       
>  ac:e8:83:83:94:d5:9e:72:50:b4:49:17:6e:51:a4:\n       
>  94:95:1a:1c:36:6c:62:17:d8:76:8d:68:2d:de:78:\n       
>  dd:4d:55:e6:13:f8:83:9c:f2:75:d4:c8:40:37:43:\n       
>  e7:86:26:01:f3:c4:9a:63:66:e1:2b:b8:f4:98:26:\n       
>  2c:3c:77:de:19:bc:e4:0b:32:f8:9a:e6:2c:37:80:\n       
>  f5:b6:27:5b:e3:37:e2:b3:15:3a:e2:ba:72:a9:97:\n       
>  5a:e7:1a:b7:24:64:94:97:06:6b:66:0f:cf:77:4b:\n       
>  75:43:d9:80:95:2d:2e:85:86:20:0e:da:41:58:b0:\n       
>  14:e7:54:65:d9:1e:cf:93:ef:c7:ac:17:0c:11:fc:\n       
>  72:46:fc:6d:ed:79:c3:77:80:00:0a:c4:e0:79:f6:\n       
>  71:fd:4f:20:7a:d7:70:80:9e:0e:2d:7b:0e:f5:49:\n       
>  3b:ef:e7:35:44:d8:e1:be:3d:dd:b5:24:55:c6:13:\n        91:a1\n     
>  "^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#hex> .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#public_exponent> 
> "65537"^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#int> .
> <> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#key> _:bnode1 .
>
> Perhaps it is worth cleaning up, so that if someone cuts and pastes 
> the example html, they get something which parses correctly.
>
> Great work on the webid stuff people!
>
> Mischa *back to lurking :)
>
>
>     Also I notice that there is no hyperlink in that section to the
>     RDFa spec.
>     As a reminder, to add improvements to the webid spec people can
>     clone the repository at
>
>     https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID
>
>     make changes and ask us to review them for inclusion, so that we
>     can merge those changes in.
>
>     Henry
>
>
>     On 14 Nov 2011, at 11:32, Mischa Tuffield wrote:
>
>         Peter,
>
>         To be more specific (was on the train when I sent the last
>         email) you could take an rdfa fragment like below (wrapped a
>         hidden span). Taken from my foaf file:
>
>
>         <span style="display:hidden;">
>         <div xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>              xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
>              xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>              xmlns:cert="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#"
>              xmlns:rsa="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#"
>              xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"
>              xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#"
>              class="rdf2rdfa">
>         <div class="description" typeof="rsa:RSAPublicKey">
>         <div rel="cert:identity">
>         <div class="description" about="#mischa" typeof="foaf:Person">
>         <div property="foaf:name" content="Mischa Tuffield"/>
>         </div>
>         </div>
>         <div rel="rsa:modulus">
>         <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>         <div
>         property="cert:hex" content="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"/>
>         </div>
>         </div>
>         <div rel="rsa:public_exponent">
>         <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>         <div property="cert:decimal" content="65537"/>
>         </div>
>         </div>
>         </div>
>         </span>
>
>         Mischa
>
>
>
>                 How do I alternatively stuff an rdf/XML stream into
>                 HTML as a data island (eg using an object tag)
>
>                 Concerning my opera unite endpoint, the whole point is
>                 that a uncontracted, public client cannot use my time
>                 sensitive graph - unless I'm online and I choose to
>                 release it (under copyright rules that prohibit
>                 compilation etc). But that is advanced, and
>                 experimntal - presaging the day when webid can be used
>                 for business and commerce).
>
>                 As it stands, I first just need to use Wordpress to
>                 host a little graph (a name and an int...) Ideally
>                 those who follow my site (about 1 person) will get an
>                 email with the graph embedded when i update the
>                 post/page, and this (pretty common) data flow can
>                 drive their id and graph caching when the email reader
>                 fires up the xHTML handler of the Mac/pc/unix.
>
>
>                 Sent from my iPhone
>                 On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:17 PM, "Henry Story"
>                 <henry.story@bblfish.net
>                 <mailto:henry.story@bblfish.net>> wrote:
>
>
>                     On 13 Nov 2011, at 22:48, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
>                         On 11/13/11 3:53 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>
>
>                             On 13 Nov 2011, at 21:31, Kingsley Idehen
>                             wrote:
>
>                                 On 11/13/11 4:48 AM, Henry Story wrote:
>
>                                     On 13 Nov 2011, at 01:52, Peter
>                                     Williams wrote:
>
>                                         atyorkporc.wordpress.com
>                                         <http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/>ive
>                                         hosted on the blog's front
>                                         page the site's contact page
>                                         (fromwordpress.com
>                                         <http://wordpress.com/>). It
>                                         has in HTML the kind of
>                                         information normallyshown in a
>                                         foaf card. it has my long term
>                                         webid, hosted on an opera
>                                         unite endpoint. Its not a foaf
>                                         card like others and neither
>                                         is the endpoint (being only
>                                         available when I am online).
>
>
>                                     That's ok. As the spec points out
>                                     (
>                                     http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/ )
>                                     all that is required for WebID is
>                                     the publication of the public key
>                                     at that endpoint with some RDF
>                                     markup. (btw, we should perhaps
>                                     add a link to the W3C how to on
>                                     publishing multiple formats in a
>                                     content negated format)
>
>
>                                 Is it about publication of a public
>                                 key with RDF markup? Is that the
>                                 narrative? If it is, then be up front
>                                 about it as I am tired of cycling this
>                                 RDF wagon re. the problem it
>                                 introduces, unnecessarily.
>
>                                 If this is an RDF only solution, say
>                                 so, and stick to it. Then live with
>                                 the consequences.
>
>
>                             Is there an issue you have with the spec?
>                             If so please tell us.
>
>
>                         I have an issue with narratives the end up
>                         with RDF as being inextricable re. WebID and
>                         its verification protocol. That's what I have
>                         an issue with. If the spec toes that line,
>                         then I have a problem with the spec. If the
>                         spec is RDF specific then qualify the whole
>                         thing as RDF based WebID, nice and simple.
>
>
>                     We have RDF/XML, Turtle, RDFa markup in html.
>                     Where is RDF/XML inextricably linked? We speak
>                     about the model, and we show the serialisations
>                     that are widely accepted.
>
>                     There has to be a way of telling in follow your
>                     nose like manner how to get the graph, which does
>                     not rely on things like: if the service is called
>                     Facebook, then do this, but if it is Twitter then
>                     do that, and if is some other site then do that.
>
>                     Or how do you think we should currently work with
>                     Peter William's profile? Should we perhaps add
>                     something to the spec that says if the URL is
>
>                     $ curl
>                     -ihttp://home.homepw2.operaunite.com/webserver/content/
>                     HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable
>                     Content-type: text/html
>                     Connection: close
>                     Server: UniteProxy/0.2.5
>
>                     <html><frameset cols="100%"><frame
>                     src="http://unite.opera.com/general/noservice/homepw2/home/"
>                     /></frameset></html>
>
>                     then we should go to
>                     http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/ and read the public
>                     key there by searching for the "RSA Public Key" string
>                     and then finding the key by guessing that that's
>                     probably a modulus because it looks like one?
>
>                     And even if we were to find the public key there,
>                     we would find that the webid does not point to the
>                     right place but to a different document that is
>                     unavailable. But perhaps that's acceptable because
>                     the spec should say that if its Peter William's
>                     site we should have an exception.
>
>                     Clearly you are not going to defend such a
>                     position. But currently I don't see how Peter
>                     Williams can claim that he even has a WebID, not
>                     in any meaningful way related to this group's work.
>
>
>
>                             Most implementations I know of now are
>                             working with RDF serialisations, so those
>                             are the ones we should be sticking by
>                             initially, as we did from the very start.
>
>
>                         Again, what on earth does that mean? That
>                         there will be a narrative utterly laced with
>                         that bias? Again, there's nothing wrong with
>                         saying: this is RDF based WebID etc.. That's
>                         better that pretending it isn't be it via spec
>                         or narrative.
>
>
>                     So what do you want the spec to say?
>
>
>                             Those serialisations are well documented
>                             and clearly specified.
>
>                         So?
>
>                         Kingsley
>
>
>
>
>                                     I see that your WebID Profile Page
>                                     - as it is called in the spec
>                                     section 2.3 - is in html. So I
>                                     guess it's meant to be parsed as RDFa.
>                                     The RDFa
>                                     http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/ validation
>                                     service seems to only return a few
>                                     URLs for your page.
>
>                                     I don't see that you have
>                                     specified any of the cert or rsa
>                                     namespaces so if you want to turn
>                                     that into a WebID you do need to
>                                     follow the explanation here
>
>                                     http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#rdfa-html-notation
>
>                                     If you find problems or
>                                     unclarities in any aspect of the
>                                     spec, please explain which part of
>                                     the text is unclear, and what
>                                     wording you suggest would help
>                                     improve it.
>
>
>                                 You are talking syntax again. Can
>                                 WebID not be discussed conceptually
>                                 without syntax specificity? Is this
>                                 impossible?
>
>
>                             I am talking spec.
>
>                             In the future when semantics is more
>                             clearly and widely understood then one
>                             will no longer need to mentions syntax.
>                             But at present that is not the case. The
>                             document is an evolving one.
>
>                             Henry
>
>
>                                 Kingsley
>
>
>                                     Henry
>
>
>                                         I happen to enforce more
>                                         privacy than perhaps do most
>                                         consumers (being a security
>                                         type engineer who is
>                                         experimenting with
>
>
>
>
>     Social Web Architect
>     http://bblfish.net/
>
>
> _________________________________
> Mischa Tuffield
> Email: mischa@mmt.me.uk <mailto:mischa@mmt.me.uk>
> Homepage: http://mmt.me.uk/
> WebID: http://mmt.me.uk/foaf.rdf#mischa
>


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
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LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen








Received on Monday, 14 November 2011 20:17:14 GMT

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