W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-webid@w3.org > November 2011

Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:05:30 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+p76BArUbf=WUn6+TcwQHT1diEqYEz-0-ck6NhR0n3NQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Williams <home_pw@msn.com>
Cc: public-xg-webid@w3.org
On 14 November 2011 20:59, Peter Williams <home_pw@msn.com> wrote:
> i opened my wordpress.com about page for editing, leaving only the <title>
> element from the previous post. I then edited in suggested material.
>
> Wordpress doesnt like the material, reducing it to the following, upon
> publication.
>
> <span style="display:hidden;">
>
> <div class="rdf2rdfa">
>    <div class="description">
>       <div>
>          <div class="description">
>             <div />
>          </div>
>       </div>
>       <div>
>          <div class="description">
>             <div />
>          </div>
>       </div>
>       <div>
>          <div class="description">
>             <div />
>          </div>
>       </div>
>    </div>
> </span>
>
>
> Wordpress wont LET ME publish the RDFa.
>
> I have not got yet to the point where I can refer to it, as it doesnt exist
> yet. Common or garden web2.0 culture wont LET me publish data. Its not a
> matter of idealism, yet; it just doesnt work with the web that (consumer)
> folks have to work with.
>
> Now, im hoping someone knows a magic switch in the wordpress-cloud tenant
> config - that enables a wordpress site to publish a little graph.
>
> Im working up the nerve to host my own wordpress server (in microsoft
> webmatrix beta 2 hosting platform on IIS7, whose sample app already comes
> with OAUTH, openid, facebook, yahoo, twitter, live, etc BUILTIN). Perhaps,
> as "full" administrator I can tweak the settings so its all less paranoid.

If wordpress.com let you publish arbitrary pages, you could steal
someone's cookie and impersonate them.

>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mischa@mmt.me.uk
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:09:24 +0000
> CC: baptiste33@gmail.com; home_pw@msn.com; public-xg-webid@w3.org
> To: henry.story@bblfish.net
> Subject: Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour
>
> Hi Henry,
> inline ...
> On 14 Nov 2011, at 12:35, Henry Story wrote:
>
> Thanks Mischa,
> If that works, then I wonder if the problem with our RDFa example on
> http://webid.info/spec#rdfa-html-notation is that we place the namespaces in
> the <html> root element. Perhaps an example that places the namespaces in
> the div as you do below would make it easier to think of. Is that why
> Baptiste Lafontaine believed that one could not add RDFa to Wordpress?
>
> Yeah, perhaps that is the issue, as far as I am aware there is no need to
> put the namespace declarations in the <html> element, am sure my example
> works too.
> Regarding your example, I am not sure it is ideal for when I try and convert
> it to triples I get the following:
> <> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> "Joe" .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type>
> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#RSAPublicKey> .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#modulus> "\n
>  00:cb:24:ed:85:d6:4d:79:4b:69:c7:01:c1:86:ac:\n
>  c0:59:50:1e:85:60:00:f6:61:c9:32:04:d8:38:0e:\n
>  07:19:1c:5c:8b:36:8d:2a:c3:2a:42:8a:cb:97:03:\n
>  98:66:43:68:dc:2a:86:73:20:22:0f:75:5e:99:ca:\n
>  2e:ec:da:e6:2e:8d:15:fb:58:e1:b7:6a:e5:9c:b7:\n
>  ac:e8:83:83:94:d5:9e:72:50:b4:49:17:6e:51:a4:\n
>  94:95:1a:1c:36:6c:62:17:d8:76:8d:68:2d:de:78:\n
>  dd:4d:55:e6:13:f8:83:9c:f2:75:d4:c8:40:37:43:\n
>  e7:86:26:01:f3:c4:9a:63:66:e1:2b:b8:f4:98:26:\n
>  2c:3c:77:de:19:bc:e4:0b:32:f8:9a:e6:2c:37:80:\n
>  f5:b6:27:5b:e3:37:e2:b3:15:3a:e2:ba:72:a9:97:\n
>  5a:e7:1a:b7:24:64:94:97:06:6b:66:0f:cf:77:4b:\n
>  75:43:d9:80:95:2d:2e:85:86:20:0e:da:41:58:b0:\n
>  14:e7:54:65:d9:1e:cf:93:ef:c7:ac:17:0c:11:fc:\n
>  72:46:fc:6d:ed:79:c3:77:80:00:0a:c4:e0:79:f6:\n
>  71:fd:4f:20:7a:d7:70:80:9e:0e:2d:7b:0e:f5:49:\n
>  3b:ef:e7:35:44:d8:e1:be:3d:dd:b5:24:55:c6:13:\n        91:a1\n
>  "^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#hex> .
> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#public_exponent>
> "65537"^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#int> .
> <> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#key> _:bnode1 .
> Perhaps it is worth cleaning up, so that if someone cuts and pastes the
> example html, they get something which parses correctly.
> Great work on the webid stuff people!
> Mischa *back to lurking :)
>
> Also I notice that there is no hyperlink in that section to the RDFa spec.
> As a reminder, to add improvements to the webid spec people can clone the
> repository at
>    https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID
> make changes and ask us to review them for inclusion, so that we can merge
> those changes in.
> Henry
>
> On 14 Nov 2011, at 11:32, Mischa Tuffield wrote:
>
> Peter,
> To be more specific (was on the train when I sent the last email) you could
> take an rdfa fragment like below (wrapped a hidden span). Taken from my foaf
> file:
>
> <span style="display:hidden;">
> <div xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>      xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
>      xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>      xmlns:cert="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#"
>      xmlns:rsa="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#"
>      xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"
>      xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#"
>      class="rdf2rdfa">
>    <div class="description" typeof="rsa:RSAPublicKey">
>       <div rel="cert:identity">
>          <div class="description" about="#mischa" typeof="foaf:Person">
>             <div property="foaf:name" content="Mischa Tuffield"/>
>          </div>
>       </div>
>       <div rel="rsa:modulus">
>          <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>             <div
> property="cert:hex" content="e7667f3211b800705be6712544e192cc1fe1410895f287947d72b8f524b3442a3344fa2282255d6a24956bd3c64d4133ab795d3a74b3ec4f779b1d8653cf7e2a4acd290bc648614f8fc1b0c3c19d27ca139a0736c88d97ab612263d95ceb87c5c76805428bacb4f6cff44616248ab18bc8a84cdda0157f523877eb873d9f536fbce5c836c312c4ce29ec8723060dab2e352d425c9d1f485c6709677ba8dc98fcddb04fed398f9a6153f125ba66dda1e65717f9ca29a07e90edd5d90dc94acb26ebdfec6174fceaab2e691ea08469d222b764146a4d98265d2865c3807e484223b6ab4c8fc738bf0806e0e3cfbb5d37ea095c658051c7ccbf1ce6ae28c9d14f6d"/>
>          </div>
>       </div>
>       <div rel="rsa:public_exponent">
>          <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>             <div property="cert:decimal" content="65537"/>
>          </div>
>       </div>
>    </div>
> </span>
> Mischa
>
>
> How do I alternatively stuff an rdf/XML stream into HTML as a data island
> (eg using an object tag)
> Concerning my opera unite endpoint, the whole point is that a uncontracted,
> public client cannot use my time sensitive graph - unless I'm online and I
> choose to release it (under copyright rules that prohibit compilation etc).
> But that is advanced, and experimntal - presaging the day when webid can be
> used for business and commerce).
> As it stands, I first just need to use Wordpress to host a little graph (a
> name and an int...) Ideally those who follow my site (about 1 person) will
> get an email with the graph embedded when i update the post/page, and this
> (pretty common) data flow can drive their id and graph caching when the
> email reader fires up the xHTML handler of the Mac/pc/unix.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:17 PM, "Henry Story" <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 22:48, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
> On 11/13/11 3:53 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 21:31, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
> On 11/13/11 4:48 AM, Henry Story wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 01:52, Peter Williams wrote:
>
> at yorkporc.wordpress.com ive hosted on the blog's front page the site's
> contact page (from wordpress.com). It has in HTML the kind of information
> normally                       shown in a foaf card. it has my long term
> webid, hosted on an opera unite endpoint. Its not a foaf card like others
> and neither is the endpoint (being only available when I am online).
>
> That's ok. As the spec points out
> ( http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/ ) all that is required for
> WebID is the publication of the public key at that endpoint with some RDF
> markup. (btw, we should perhaps add a link to the W3C how to on publishing
> multiple formats in a content negated format)
>
> Is it about publication of a public key with RDF markup? Is that the
> narrative? If it is, then be up front about it as I am tired of cycling this
> RDF wagon re. the problem it introduces, unnecessarily.
>
> If this is an RDF only solution, say so, and stick to it. Then live with the
> consequences.
>
> Is there an issue you have with the spec? If so please tell us.
>
> I have an issue with narratives the end up with RDF as being inextricable
> re. WebID and its verification protocol. That's what I have an issue with.
> If the spec toes that line, then I have a problem with the spec. If the spec
> is RDF specific then qualify the whole thing as RDF based WebID, nice and
> simple.
>
> We have RDF/XML, Turtle, RDFa markup in html. Where is RDF/XML inextricably
> linked? We speak about the model, and we show the serialisations that are
> widely accepted.
> There has to be a way of telling in follow your nose like manner how to get
> the graph, which does not rely on things like: if the service is called
> Facebook, then do this, but if it is Twitter then do that, and if is some
> other site then do that.
> Or how do you think we should currently work with Peter William's profile?
> Should we perhaps add something to the spec that says if the URL is
> $ curl -i http://home.homepw2.operaunite.com/webserver/content/
> HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable
> Content-type: text/html
> Connection: close
> Server: UniteProxy/0.2.5
> <html><frameset cols="100%"><frame
> src="http://unite.opera.com/general/noservice/homepw2/home/"
> /></frameset></html>
> then we should go to http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/ and read the public key
> there by searching for the "RSA Public Key" string
> and then finding the key by guessing that that's probably a modulus because
> it looks like one?
> And even if we were to find the public key there, we would find that the
> webid does not point to the right place but to a different document that is
> unavailable. But perhaps that's acceptable because the spec should say that
> if its Peter William's site we should have an exception.
> Clearly you are not going to defend such a position. But currently I don't
> see how Peter Williams can claim that he even has a WebID, not in any
> meaningful way related to this group's work.
>
>
> Most implementations I know of now are working with RDF serialisations, so
> those are the ones we should be sticking by initially, as we did from the
> very start.
>
> Again, what on earth does that mean? That there will be a narrative utterly
> laced with that bias? Again, there's nothing wrong with saying: this is RDF
> based WebID etc.. That's better that pretending it isn't be it via spec or
> narrative.
>
> So what do you want the spec to say?
>
> Those serialisations are well documented and clearly specified.
>
> So?
>
> Kingsley
>
>
>
> I see that your WebID Profile Page - as it is called in the spec section 2.3
> - is in html. So I guess it's meant to be parsed as RDFa.
> The RDFa http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/ validation service seems to only
> return a few URLs for your page.
> I don't see that you have specified any of the cert or rsa namespaces so if
> you want to turn that into a WebID you do need to follow the explanation
> here
>   http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#rdfa-html-notation
> If you find problems or unclarities in any aspect of the spec, please
> explain which part of the text is unclear, and what wording you suggest
> would help improve it.
>
> You are talking syntax again. Can WebID not be discussed conceptually
> without syntax specificity? Is this impossible?
>
> I am talking spec.
> In the future when semantics is more clearly and widely understood then one
> will no longer need to mentions syntax. But at present that is not the case.
> The document is an evolving one.
> Henry
>
>
> Kingsley
>
> Henry
>
>
> I happen to enforce more privacy than perhaps do most consumers (being a
> security type engineer who is experimenting with
>
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
> _________________________________
> Mischa Tuffield
> Email: mischa@mmt.me.uk
> Homepage: http://mmt.me.uk/
> WebID: http://mmt.me.uk/foaf.rdf#mischa
>
Received on Monday, 14 November 2011 20:06:08 GMT

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