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RE: Important Question re. WebID Verifiers & Linked Data

From: Peter Williams <home_pw@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:02:38 -0800
Message-ID: <SNT143-W20B83AEBF9CB9C38CDDF8D92AA0@phx.gbl>
To: <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, "public-xg-webid@w3.org" <public-xg-webid@w3.org>


 As someone who was bored of format wars decades ago, I could not care less. As a late-adopting user, we use what everyone else uses, 5 years after the C grade folks adopted it. The only thing that matters is that its of the class designed for machine readability. That all the semantic web means to me (the rest is academic research, personality cults, other dogma). We get the 80% web scale, consumer grade technology, commodity pricing, and machine readability. Period. And, those are the adopting factors (for the last set of MASS adopters). If it matters, in the phone world the single largest standard for profiles is ldap... almost every enterprise PBX on the planet uses ldap to talk to microsoft directory... Billions of hits a day, as a billion phone call agents resync. It was interesting in my cisco course the other day to see its standards evolving; and when cisco proprietary stuff is used (this presages standardziation, typically) They are using (now at PROFESSIONAL cisco engineering level) EIGRP to build the "linked data" graph, and do the signalling, path cycle detection, and trust network convergence - in 1s or less, typically. What more, they are using SMTP to have folks profiles distributed to caches (each participating PBX), where the multi-media profile is a voice clip, a vcard, and (URI) references back to the voice/video mail resources. All engineered for HUGE throughput. This is all part of the big microsoft push too in Office365 cloud, whicih comes with its own telephony-related initiatives. So, its all moot, really. Its just new security market formation (which is why CEC could fund it, as pre-competitive R&D). There HAS to be a point at which the 25 year old cert eventually gets replaced!  > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:46:53 -0500
> From: kidehen@openlinksw.com
> To: public-xg-webid@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Important Question re. WebID Verifiers & Linked Data
> 
> On 12/22/11 10:15 AM, Henry Story wrote:
> > Thanks Patrick for exploring this. Some further pointers.
> > An issue open for Microdata
> >
> >    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/track/issues/66
> >
> > All of our implementations support rdfa and rdf/xml. So going on what is
> > currently implemented the spec is correct.
> >
> > We also have a wiki page that converse the different formats
> >    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/wiki/WebID_by_examples
> >
> > I wonder if the linked data crowd would prefer turtle support over
> > rdf/xml by now.
> 
> Who are these RDF/XML touting Linked Data folks that you speak of? Are 
> you not keeping up to date with Linked Data at all?
> Turtle has been used to drive Linked Data since the emergence of SPARQL. 
> What are SPARQL graph patterns based on? RDF/XML?
> 
> >
> > My own prejudice is that RDFa looks pretty good now. Especially RDFa 1.1.
> >
> >     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Dec/0057.html
> 
> Yes, but neither your prejudices nor mine matter. This is about a spec 
> for a standard that we all hope is adopted en masse by Web Developers 
> and users.
> >
> > And has been worked through carefully.
> 
> Microdata has been worked through also. Google has also ensured mass 
> adoption. Please do some objective research re. Microdata and its 
> adoption etc..
> 
> 
> Kingsley
> 
> 
> >
> > 	Henry
> >
> > On 22 Dec 2011, at 15:57, Patrick Logan wrote:
> >
> >> OK, that seems manageable, assuming it all specs out.
> >>
> >> So looking at the 12 December 2012 draft (
> >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#in-portable-contacts-format-using-grddl
> >> ), it looks like (2) RDFa and (4) RDF/XML are in the draft, but (1)
> >> HTML+Microdata and (3) Turtle are not.
> >>
> >> In particular the two most relevant sections look to be:
> >>
> >> ========
> >> 3.2.4.1 Processing the WebID Profile
> >>
> >> The Verification Agent must be able to process documents in RDF/XML
> >> [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR] and RDFa in XHTML [XHTML-RDFA]. The result of
> >> this processing should be a graph of RDF relations that is queryable,
> >> as explained in the next section.
> >> ========
> >>
> >> How should that read instead?
> >>
> >> And then the profile description section itself (
> >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#the-webid-profile ) lists
> >> some "should", "must", and "not required"
> >>
> >> ========
> >> foaf:mbox
> >>
> >> foaf:name
> >>
> >> foaf:depiction
> >>
> >> cert:RSAPublicKey
> >>
> >> cert:key
> >> ========
> >>
> >> Clearly (to me) Turtle can handle these. So maybe nothing more has to
> >> be said about that but to list Turtle as an option.
> >>
> >> I know almost nothing about HTML+Microdata. My basic understanding is
> >> that the "itemtype" attribute would be required to indicate some
> >> values are foaf:mbox's, cert:key's, etc. Are there any representation
> >> issues or pieces missing in the Microdata draft necessary to have
> >> Microdata be unambiguously supported in the WebID spec?
> >>
> >> Are you (Kingsley) driving the inclusion of Microdata in the WebID spec?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Patrick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@openlinksw.com>  wrote:
> >>> On 12/22/11 8:08 AM, Patrick Logan wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> >>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>> The WebID spec can require or suggest a number of common formats for
> >>>>>> eav/spo triple transmission as the basis for effective bootstrap.
> >>>> Agreed. What should that list be at this point in time?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Patrick
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> 1. HTML + Microdata
> >>> 2. XHTML + RDFa
> >>> 3. Turtle
> >>> 4. RDF/XML .
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Kingsley Idehen
> >>> Founder&   CEO
> >>>
> >>> OpenLink Software
> >>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> >>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> >>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> >>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> >>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > Social Web Architect
> > http://bblfish.net/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen	
> Founder&  CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 		 	   		  
Received on Thursday, 22 December 2011 16:03:24 GMT

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