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RE: (regrets and schema.org)

From: Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:33:06 -0400
Message-ID: <52E301F960B30049ADEFBCCF1CCAEF590CE9FFBC@OAEXCH4SERVER.oa.oclc.org>
To: "Neubert Joachim" <J.Neubert@zbw.eu>, "William Waites" <ww@styx.org>, "Emmanuelle Bermes" <manue@figoblog.org>
Cc: "public-xg-lld" <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Joachim,

Thanks for the review. Here's the diff between versions that should account for all your points:

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_Relevant_Technologies&diff=5140&oldid=5135

Specific details are below:

> A seperate section for Microdata, Microformats and RDFa is a very good
> thing, because lots of people will be concerned about making descisions
> on this. (Additionally, it is a good thing to drag RDFa out of the
> Content Management Systems section, since RDFa is not restricted to
> this field. The title and wording of the CMS section could be adapted
> accordingly.) As a further suggestion, the more vocabulary related
> Microdata/RDFa section should possibly precede the more development
> oriented about web application frameworks, cms and web services.

Done.

> Re. the contents, my feeling is that the situation offers a lot of
> options, which are not yet evaluated. One which perhaps should be
> mentioned in the text is mixing schema.org and genuine RDF
> vocabularies. This should be quite easy in RDFa:
> 
> <div typeof="schema:ScholarlyArticle">
>   <h2 property="schema:headline dc:title">Estimating the Effect of
>   ...</h2>
>   <p property="bibo:abstract">This paper uses the Five-Factor Model
> ...</p>
>   <span property="bibo:handle"
> content="http://hdl.handle.net/10419/20518"/>
>   ...
> 
> This could be one of the possible ways to combine the expressiveness of
> library or other RDF vocabs with the schema.org classes and properties
> in order to optimize search engine visibility, which may be a main
> concern for many organizations.

The general point seems to be addressed by this sentence:

	"Modulo bugs in the search engines' parsers it is even possible to do both in the same web page."

I worry that giving a specific example would overstate the relative importance RDFa. I would be willing to add it, though, if someone feels strongly about it.

> 
> Since currently no proven best practices for combing the approaches
> exist (and their developement will heavily depend on experience with
> the search engines crawling and ranking mechanisms - which will evolve
> over time, too), we should mark that as an open field - while making a
> strong point that schema.org and RDF(a) should in no way be treated as
> mutually exclusive.

I think this is the intended take-away for this specific section: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies#Microformats.2C_Microdata_and_RDFa. I agree the message could probably be clearer, though.

Jeff

> 
> Cheers, Joachim
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: public-xg-lld-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-lld-request@w3.org]
> Im Auftrag von William Waites
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2011 00:11
> An: Emmanuelle Bermes
> Cc: public-xg-lld
> Betreff: (regrets and schema.org) Re: Agenda - June 16 2011 - LLD XG
> telecon - 1000 EDT
> 
> My apologies, I'll not be able to make the telecon tomorrow.
> 
> Jeff and I have corresponded a bit about schema.org, and I've added
> a short section to the Relevant Technologies section:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies#M
> icroformats.2C_Microdata_and_RDFa
> 
> The gist is:
> 
>   - microdata/schema.org is primarily intended for SEO
>   - schema.org's vocabulary is heavy in the tourism and commerce areas
>     and would need a lot of extension to do libraries
>   - there is some level of interoperability with schema.rdfs.org
>   - that interoperability only helps a little with interlinking
> different
>     library and other datasets
>   - it is possible to feed the search engines RDFa
>   - it is possible (modulo rumoured bugs) to feed the search engines
> both
>     RDFa and microdata from the same page
>   - if you can't do RDF and can't do RDFa then some schema.org is
> better
>     than nothing
> 
> Cheers,
> -w
> 
> * [2011-06-15 22:56:20 +0200] Emmanuelle Bermes <manue@figoblog.org>
> écrit:
> 
> ] Agenda - June 16 2011 - LLD XG telecon - 1000 EDT
> ]
> ] Time -
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons#Connection_info
> ]      http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-
> calendar.html#s_4061
> ]      0700 Seattle - 1000 New York - 1500 London - 1600 Paris - 2300
> Kuala Lumpur
> ]      2400 Tokyo - 0200 Sydney (next day)
> ]
> ] W3C Library Linked Data Incubator group:
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/                   - home
> page
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/              - wiki
> ]       http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/      - group
> list
> ]       http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/         -
> community list
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons      -
> telecons
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda -
> "running agenda"
> ]
> ] Chair: Emmanuelle
> ] Scribe: ?
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ScribeDuty
> ]       http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/Scribing.html - how to
> ] Regrets:
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] ADMIN
> ] -- Minutes of previous telecons
> ]   PROPOSED: To accept
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld-
> minutes.html
> ]
> ] -- Telecons - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons
> ]      2011-06-23 Antoine (regrets Tom)
> ]      2011-06-30 Emma (regrets Tom)
> ]      2011-07-07 Emma (regrets Tom)
> ]      2011-07-14 NO TELECON
> ]      2011-07-21 Antoine (regrets Emma)
> ]      2011-07-28 NO TELECON
> ]      2011-08-04 Tom
> ]      2011-08-11 NO TELECON
> ]      2011-08-18 Antoine (regrets Emma)
> ]      2011-08-25 final telecon (Tom)
> ]
> ] -- LOD-LAM summit (2011-06-02/03)
> ]
> ]      ACTION: Tom to send email to the LOD-LAM participants and create
> ] a final version of the presentation [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-
> minutes.html#action01]
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] FINAL REPORT
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportReviewerAssignment
> s
> ]
> ] ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting
> ] comments at next call [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action15]
> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> lld/2011May/0051.html
> ] -- posting to a blog ?
> ] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0017.html
> ]
> ] Tom's proposal for a review strategy:
> ] -- 2011-06-07: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> lld/2011Jun/0002.html
> ] -- 2011-06-09: discussion during call and refinement:
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld-
> minutes.html
> ]
> ] ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review
> ] between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June
> ] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-
> lld-minutes.html#action02]
> ]
> ] ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org
> -
> ] where in the report it should be discussed [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld-
> minutes.html#action03]
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] EXECUTIVE SUMMARY (tbd)
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] "LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT (Karen, Peter, Tom,
> Gordon, Jodi)
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Da
> ta.22:_Scope_of_this_report
> ]
> ] ACTION: everyone to read
> ]
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Da
> ta.22:_Scope_of_this_report
> ] and do lightweight review [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action04]
> ]
> ] ACTION: Jodi to send email about Scope statement [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action05]
> ] --DONE: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> lld/2011May/0048.html
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] BENEFITS OF LINKED DATA (Ed, Emmanuelle, Ross)
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits
> ]
> ] ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-
> minutes.html#action06]
> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> lld/2011May/0080.html
> ]
> ] ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action06]
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] AVAILABLE VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William)
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_S
> ection
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] RELEVANT TECHNOLOGIES (Jeff)
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies
> ]
> ] ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld-
> minutes.html#action04]
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] IMPLEMENTATION CHALLENGES AND BARRIERS TO ADOPTION (Karen, Peter,
> Tom,
> ] Gordon, Jodi)
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
> ]
> ] ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and
> ] limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-
> minutes.html#action01]
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_
> data
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources
> ]
> ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> ] RECOMMENDATIONS AND NEXT STEPS (Karen, Peter, Tom, Gordon, Jodi)
> ] --
> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page
> ]
> ] ACTION: Jeff to review
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page
> ] for next week [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action12]
> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011May/0052.html
> ]
> ] ACTION: Tom to ask Dickson and Guenther if they could contribute
> ] curriculum issues to the Recommendations Section [recorded in
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-
> minutes.html#action13]
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] LIBRARY LINKED DATA: VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS - SEPARATE DELIVERABLE
> ] (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William)
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset
> ]    Two Clouds: Metadata Element Sets and Datasets/Value Vocabularies
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] USE CASES (Daniel) - SEPARATE DELIVERABLE
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport
> ]
> ] ACTION: Jodi to review
> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport for next week
> ] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-
> lld-minutes.html#action14]
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] TRANSITION TO W3C COMMUNITY GROUP
> ] -- http://www.w3.org/QA/2011/04/coming_soon_w3c_community_grou.html
> ]    See also http://www.w3.org/2010/12/community/final
> ]
> ] 2011-05-12: Should inform W3C of intent to transition by 1 August for
> ] transition on 1 September.
> ]
> ]
> ======================================================================
> ] AOB
> ]
> 
> --
> William Waites                <mailto:ww@styx.org>
> http://river.styx.org/ww/        <sip:ww@styx.org>
> F4B3 39BF E775 CF42 0BAB  3DF0 BE40 A6DF B06F FD45
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 23 June 2011 15:36:14 GMT

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