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Meeting minutes - 2010-09-09 LLD XG telecon

From: Emmanuelle Bermes <emmanuelle.bermes@bnf.fr>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:35:58 +0200
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ewpMiJA7SFzTeOODpiYuW_khLqz+CWEpHOevQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
I just just realized we didn't circulate last week's minutes. Sorry
for the delay.
They're at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/09-lld-minutes.html
Text version attached

Emmanuelle

********** Text version *************


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

09 Sep 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0058.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Tom Baker, Emmanuelle Bermes, Felix Sasaki, Bernard Vatant,
          Gordon Dunsire, Karen Coyle, Alexander Haffner, Andras
          Micsik, Wolfgang Halb, Marcia Zeng, Jonathan Rees, Joachim
          Neubert, Ross Singer, Jeff Young, Michael Panzer, Lars G.
          Svensson, Guenther Neher, William Waites, kefo

   Regrets
          Jodi, Anette, Joachim, Monica, Kim, Antoine

   Chair
          Tom

   Scribe
          Bernard

Contents

     * [4]Topics
     * [5]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   marma hi, I'm following this only via IRC (Martin Malmsten from KB,
   Stockholm)

   TomB Previous:
   [6]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minut
   es.html

      [6] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html

   TomB Scribe: Bernard

   TomB scribenick: bernard

   Topic: Admin

   RESOLUTION: accept previous telecon minutes

   Topic : next meetings - F2F in Pittsburgh

   TomB: will circulate more information about F2F
   ... will need improvisation about phone and projector ...
   ... agenda is on the wiki

   emma draft agenda for F2F :
   [7]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh

      [7] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh

   TomB ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to
   indicate whether they are attending or not at
   [8]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUES]

      [8] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
      [9] http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01

   scribe ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to
   indicate whether they are attending or not at
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-lld-minutes.html#action03]

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
     [11] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-lld-minutes.html#action03

   TomB: informal meeting in Cologne

   Informal meeting of XG members at SWBIB 2010 on the morning of 1
   December - contact Joachim Neubert

   Topic : Use cases and case studies - update

   TomB: For next week telecon pick two use cases for detailed
   discussion

   emma ACTION: By Monday Sept. 6 members should add to list of email
   lists at
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
   [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05] [DONE]

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action05

   emma ACTION: Group to comment on email text at
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail by
   Monday, Sept. 6 [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail
     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action06

   emma ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded
   in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08

   Topic : RDA

   emma --CONTINUE

   emma ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for
   discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06

   -- To be discussed:
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data

   Topic : GordonD presentation of
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data

   TomB Within IFLA, new technical group for namespaces, coordination
   of standards in SW framwork, etc - will report to new core activity
   that resurrects something abandoned a few years ago - concept of
   universal bibliographic control. One or two months.

   GordonD no formal connection between FRBR and RDA activities

   TomB ... special interest group for SW issues. Producing mappings
   beyond IFLA, e.g. for RDA, remains semi-formal - no formal orgn
   looking at mappings with RDA. Only joint membership in activities.

   GordonDPublication of standards in RDF not synchronized

   TomB ... Trying to convey complexity of issues - if we are to get
   these standards to work together effectively.

   GordonD Issues section gathers issues discussed in both groups
   ... Constrained versus unconstrained properties and classes is the
   main issue ...

   GordonDno specification of constraints in RDA ...

   emma pressure from non-lib community for unconstrained properties
   but RDA, JSC and IFLA groups are convinced that constrained versions
   ar necessary

   emma recent IFLA meeting consider publishing unconstrained versions,
   linked with constrained ones.

   matolat zakim michaelp.a is matolat

   TomB Gordon: IFLA persuaded, JSC coming around - have indicated they
   will not block unconstrained properties.

   kcoyle another issue has to do with the way constraints are
   expressed and how they are enforced in applications
   ... not sure the RDA method actually works

   GordonD constraints are not enforced on applications
   ... constraints are useful to check legacy data

   kcoyle there is a sort a contradiction there

   TomB Gordon: They are constraints on _inferences_. Powerful if you
   consider there may be billions of triples eventually. Records can be
   "filled in" using inferences.

   GordonD I won't call them "unformal" constraints

   Zakim michaelp, you wanted to talk about constraints

   GordonD We need more technical investigation

   Michaelp there is a bit of confusion about constraints and
   validation
   ... In OWL the constraints are enabling, not restricting
   ... There are different of constraints like in XML schemas

   GordonD Indeed a big deal of confusion in this area
   ... RDA wants to be validated as a schema
   ... but also enabling as Michaelp has pointed

   Jeff_ The same model can be used either as a schema, either as
   enabling depending on the use case

   kcoyle we should clarify which constraints we are speaking about

   GordonD There are a lot of value constraints in RDA

   emma Karen : RDA primary constraints are about constraining a
   property to a FRBR entity, not the values

   GordonD RDA should keep its own versions of FRBR constraints ...

   TomB move on to next topics
   ... port this discussion to F2F

   jeff_ +1

   mzrcia +1

   AlexanderH +1

   GordonD next topic is "Application profiles or OWL ontologies"

   emma GordonD : ISBD elements have a sequence + indicate if mandatory
   or not, so need for application profile

   GordonD What LLD can bring is clarification of when using
   application profiles and when using OWL

   Topic: Use of published properties and classes

   GordonD How can library comunity be made aware of and re-use widely
   used classes and properties?

   Need to acknowledge overlap between libray and "open Web" classes
   and properties

   Zakim emma, you wanted to suggest the need to encourage the use of
   widespread standards

   emma Agreed with GordonD ...

   it's very much an issue of trust ...

   mzrcia FRSAD intent to use skos semantic relationships instead of
   repeating to define them

   LLD should encourage library community not to be shy about this use

   Zakim TomB, you wanted to suggest additional attention to
   "alignment" - mappings and "identity links" between vocabularies

   emma library community not used to multiplicity of representations

   jeff_ Gordon, you should add OWL to the list of DC, FOAF, SKOS at
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data#Use_of_published_properties_and_classes

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data#Use_of_published_properties_and_classes

   GordonD Jeff, will do

   marcia: We have already actions on declaring relationships using
   "sameAs" or "equivalent classes"

   mzrcia using SKOS secmantic relationships

   mzrcia such as broader, narrower... between themas

   GordonD: The library community should not be churlish in saying "not
   invented here"
   ... Elements coming from the library models will be useful elsewhere
   also

   mzrcia I was also into the discussion of reusing/borrowing the
   associative relationships between concepts/topics defined by the
   Getty vocabulary

   GordonD How can LLD can have action on milestones in this area?
   ... Library linked-data and legacy records ...

   potential to generate billions of instances ...

   GordonD copyright is a critical issue here ...

   emma GordonD : Need from LLD community to encourage freeing the data

   It's a political issue (How can libraries be encouraged to "free"
   their records?)

   GordonD Technical infrastructure ...

   emma Library system vendors will only change if customers ask for it

   How are vendors to see the ROI?

   Topic: Duplication and identifiers

   GordonD identifying different records for the same thing is also a
   big issue ..
   ... Library culture ...
   ... sociological barriers to address ...

   rsinger GordonD++ #awesome

   emma +1, Thanks GordonD !

   mzrcia +1, Gordon!

   LarsG +1 GordonD, Great!

   TomB +1 great summary of the issues!

   GordonD All, thanks!

   TomB: a lot of congratulations to Gordon!

Summary of Action Items

   [PENDING] ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki
   [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page
   to indicate whether they are attending or not at
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/08/26-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: By Monday Sept. 6 members should add to list of email
   lists at
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
   [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]
   [DONE] ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for
   discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Group to comment on email text at
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail by
   Monday, Sept. 6 [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08
     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01
     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
     [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action05
     [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail
     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action06

   [End of minutes]



-- 
=====
Emmanuelle Bermès - http://www.bnf.fr
Manue - http://www.figoblog.org
Received on Wednesday, 15 September 2010 04:36:31 GMT

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