W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-lld@w3.org > September 2010

Minutes of XG meeting, Sept. 2, 2010

From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:44:13 -0700
Message-ID: <20100902134413.aqqqh9yyo444wk04@kcoyle.net>
To: "public-xg-lld@w3.org" <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Online at:  
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html

Special thanks to Antoine and Emma who did much work to help me get  
through my first scribe duty.

********** Text version *************

   [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                  LLDXG

02 Sep 2010

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0007.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc

Attendees

    Present
           emma, aseiler, jeff, GordonD, jneubert, antoine, fsasaki,
           marma, ww, marcia, digikim, kcoyle, TomB, edsu, matolat,
           jodi, AlexanderH, kevinf, rsinger, jon, bernard, michaelp

    Regrets
           Ray, Monica, Lars, Nicolas, Oreste

    Chair
           Emmanuelle

    Scribe
           Karen

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Admin
          2. [6]Use cases
          3. [7]name section
          4. [8]owner section
          5. [9]goal section
          6. [10]use case scenario section
          7. [11]application of linked data section
          8. [12]Existing work section
          9. [13]vocabularies section
         10. [14]problems and limitations section
         11. [15]related use cases section
         12. [16]lld data dimensions/topics section
         13. [17]references section
         14. [18]prototypes and applications
         15. [19]call email text
         16. [20]what lists to send mail to?
      * [21]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <emma> Previous minutes :
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/08/26-lld-minu
    tes.html

      [22]  
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html

    can onyone else scribe I can't get the phone line :(

    <edsu> kevinf++ # glad to have you here :-)

    Nice number is down and Bristol is busy

    <emma> Scribe: Karen

    <emma> scribenick: kcoyle

    <antoine> Agenda:
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0007.h
    tml

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0007.html

    <bernard> thanks Karen, sorry about that

Admin

    RESOLUTION: accept previous telecon minutes

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to say I have created a draft agenda at
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010

    f2f meeting: Tom - has posted draft agenda

    page is on wiki

    signups on wiki page for attendence at f2f: all sign up on page

    ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to
    indicate whether they are attending or not at
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01]
    [CONTINUES]

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
      [26] http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01

    Cologne possible informal meeting, Dec. 1, morning

    <jneubert> Full SWIB10 programme now online at
    [27]http://swib.org/swib10/

      [27] http://swib.org/swib10/

    <jneubert> Doodle poll still open, please add your name if you want
    to join later on: [28]http://www.doodle.com/tdxwapytnxrsm4tm

      [28] http://www.doodle.com/tdxwapytnxrsm4tm

Use cases

    ACTION: kai will try to update Karen's use case [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03

    <antoine>

    <emma>
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template

    Discussion on list has been added to Talk page of template

    <edsu> +1

    AlexanderH: use same template for use cases and for case studies?

    Alexander: template designed for use cases; can same template be
    used also for case studies?

    Antoine: dual use could mean some difference in how sections are
    used, but should be ok

    <bernard> no objection

    RESOLUTION: use same template for use cases and case studies

    <Zakim> jodi, you wanted to suggest that we can get responses by
    email or in the public wiki

name section -- ok

owner section -- ok

    <Zakim> jneubert, you wanted to suggest to make the other sections
    not subchapters of Name

    <antoine> Just changed it!

goal - there have been problems with this one. needs to be clear that
it is goal of user, not of use case

    "user goal"?

    Antoine: leave as is

    RESOLUTION: do not change goal section today

use case scenario section -

    Alexander: may not be applicable to case studies

    kcoyle:i thought this was one of the easier sections

    Jeff: sees no problem using for both types

    <TomB> +1 - do not see a problem using use case scenario for case
    studies

    Antoine: also in favor of keeping it

    <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask about actors

    <antoine> actors is given maybe by the next section "target
    audience" :-)

    edsu: had some trouble with who the actor is; actor as person rather
    than software

    <ww> can't hear the discussion, but just to make a point that came
    up on the openbiblio list, w.r.t. owl:sameAs - representations of
    information are tied closely to the intent of the users of the
    information - their goals, the context. "relevance" of properties,
    attributes, rules, etc. always as to do with this, it is really,
    "relevant given the intent and context of the user"

    Jeff: tried to get human purpose into case, included both human and
    machine

    <edsu> thanks jeff

    antoine: target audience would be place for person

    <Zakim> jodi, you wanted to ask about the use case template and how
    to solicit the info we need

    <edsu> antoine: i like that idea of having the target audience guide
    who the actors are

    <jeff_> +1

    Jodi: might be easier to have more interactive way to get
    information
    ... with a curator who receives the case

    antoine: need template, but for skos use cases asked for use cases
    by mail and could go back and ask questions if needed. Is that what
    jodi intends?

    jodi: more about preface

    should target audience be before scenario in template?

    edsu: good to think about who you are writing it for earlier in
    template

    <jeff_> +1

    <bernard> I don't see "target audience" at
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template

    RESOLUTION: move target audience before scenario

    <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to ask whether my small explanation text
    is ok...

    audience = main audience for case; should we add computer as
    possible audience?

    RESOLUTION: Add computer as possible audience

    <ww> PHILOSOPHICAL DIVERSION: can a computer have intent?

application of linked data section

    jeff: use of URI patterns tends to distract from case; hard to come
    up with realistic examples that look like good URIs

    Alex: could talk about use of patterns in scenario, to explain
    examples in linked data

    jeff: perhaps uri patterns deserve their own use case

    <marcia> I like to see it

    <jneubert> +1 for using uri patterns in describing use cases

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask how "patterns" are coming into
    discussion and whether this notion should be captured in the
    template - note: relates to application profiles

    <jodi> to me, URI patterns seem like something separate (standards
    of practice, best practices) -- not a 'use case'

    <marcia> maybe URI patterns to be a wiki page

    TomB: re: patterns; not directly related to templates, but more
    related to application profiles

    Antoine: patterns is an important issue, but not the only one.
    better not to try to fit them all into use cases

    <TomB> +1 okay, not trying to fit them into all use cases

    <jeff_> +1

Existing work section

    discussion page has new wording

    RESOLUTION: accept wording on discussion page

vocabularies -- no discussion

problems and limitations section --

    <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to make it optional?

    Antoine: this should be optional

    RESOLUTION: make problems and limitations optional section

related use cases section

    no comments

lld data dimensions/topics -- propose drop it

    <edsu> +1

    <jneubert> +1

    <jeff_> +1

    <antoine> antoine: let's keep that beast just for us :-)

    <matolat> +1

    use only to curate use cases afterward

    <edsu> antoine: yes, i think they will be useful for analysis after
    we get them

    <bernard> +1

    RESOLUTION: drop LLD Dimension/topics section for call for use
    cases; keep for curation

references section --- no problems

prototypes and applications -- put content under existing work instead

    <antoine> I've made the changes we agreed on at
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template

call email text

    <emma>
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail

    <marcia> I wonder if 'research' and 'experiments' are also welcome
    or not.

    marcia: do these have to be real uses, or can research activities be
    included?

    answer: anything should be welcome

    <antoine> the draft mail mentions "considering doing it in the near
    future" :-)

    <digikim> does the answerers know what linked data is?

    ACTION: group to comment on email text at
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail by
    Monday, Sept. 6 [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
    tes.html#action06]

      [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail

    <marcia> suggest to add a link to the Linked Data basic principles

    <matolat> is Library Linked Data a well know definition? Will we get
    straight Linked Data case?

    <jeff_> here's the spec: [36]http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/

      [36] http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/

    <marcia> Refer to this page?
    [37]http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html

      [37] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html

    antoine: need use case curation team; for interaction with use case
    senders

    <jodi> I would like to volunteer for curation. :)

    emmanuelle volunteers

    alex also "volunteers"

    <digikim> how do we select who to send the questionary?

    <antoine> yes that's the next point :-)

what lists to send mail to?

    <marcia> we should have a page of the listservs, e.g., IFLA-L,
    ASIST... and decide who will send

    <antoine>
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DisseminationLists.html

      [38] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DisseminationLists.html

    ACTION: by Monday members should add to list of email lists at
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
    [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
    tes.html#action05]

      [39] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists

    <bernard> proposal : push the announcement URL on our respective
    Twitter status

    <emma> [adjourned]

    [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: by Monday members should add to list of email lists at
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
    [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
    tes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: group to comment on email text at
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail by
    Monday, Sept. 6 [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minu
    tes.html#action06]

      [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists
      [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail

    [PENDING] ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page
    to indicate whether they are attending or not at
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki
    [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
    tes.html#action08]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc.
    for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minu
    tes.html#action06]

      [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F
      [46] http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01
      [47]  
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08
      [48]  
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06

    [DONE] ACTION: kai will try to update Karen's use case [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03]

      [49] http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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-- 
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet
Received on Thursday, 2 September 2010 20:44:48 GMT

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