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RE: R13. Web application author should have ability to customize speech recognition graphical user interface

From: Deborah Dahl <dahl@conversational-technologies.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:08:34 -0500
To: <Olli@pettay.fi>
Cc: "'Bjorn Bringert'" <bringert@google.com>, "'Michael Bodell'" <mbodell@microsoft.com>, "'Dan Burnett'" <dburnett@voxeo.com>, <public-xg-htmlspeech@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00e401cb97c3$b6e32ef0$24a98cd0$@conversational-technologies.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Olli Pettay [mailto:Olli.Pettay@helsinki.fi]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:31 AM
> To: Deborah Dahl
> Cc: 'Bjorn Bringert'; 'Michael Bodell'; 'Dan Burnett'; public-xg-
> htmlspeech@w3.org
> Subject: Re: R13. Web application author should have ability to customize
> speech recognition graphical user interface
> 
> On 12/09/2010 06:18 PM, Deborah Dahl wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message----- From:
> >> public-xg-htmlspeech-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-htmlspeech-
> >> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Olli Pettay Sent: Thursday, December
> >> 09, 2010 10:09 AM To: Deborah Dahl Cc: 'Bjorn Bringert'; 'Michael
> >> Bodell'; 'Dan Burnett'; public-xg- htmlspeech@w3.org Subject: Re:
> >> R13. Web application author should have ability to customize speech
> >> recognition graphical user interface
> >>
> >> On 12/09/2010 04:59 PM, Deborah Dahl wrote:
> >>> Here's a possible tweak on this one.
> >>>
> >>> "Web apps should be able to customize all aspects of the user
> >>> interface for speech recognition, except that end users must have
> >>> a clear tindication whenever the microphone is listening to the
> >>> user".
> >>>
> >>> The reason I suggest this is that I think it's more specific and
> >>> more consistent with R32 "R32. End users need a clear indication
> >>> whenever microphone is listening to the user", in not calling out
> >>> the specific aspects of the user interface (i.e. security and
> >>> privacy) where it should not be customizable.
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, my suggestion wouldn’t cover any possible
> >>> cases where security and privacy can be compromised in the user
> >>> interface of a speech app by something other than surreptitious
> >>> recording, if there are any, so we might need some combination of
> >>> the wordings from both proposals.
> >>
> >> Yeah, unfortunately "indication whenever the microphone is
> >> listening" is not enough. UAs must handle for example clickjacking
> >> somehow, so I assume that the domain which is trying to use speech
> >> services must be exposed to user.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Olli
> >>
> > Good point. Do you think it's possible to enumerate the cases where
> > security and privacy could potentially be compromised by changes in
> > the speech app UI?
> I doubt that. New kinds of security issues are found pretty often.
> 
> 
> > So far it seems that the user must know about
> > recording and the user must know about the domain which is trying to
> > use speech services. If there are others, and we can enumerate them,
> > then we should do so, but if there isn't a finite list of
> > possibilities the reference to "those aspects required for security
> > and privacy" is too vague.
> 
> Since different kinds of UAs may have different kinds of security
> and privacy problems, it would be very difficult to list them all.
> I think the requirement just need to be clear that in case of
> security or privacy issue, UA may (or must?) override web app specified
> UI.

Then doesn't the UA have to have a list of cases where it has to override the web app UI, and the list might be different for different UA's. Then the developer  will have to develop differently for different UA's, because they might override different parts of the UI.

> 
> -Olli
> 
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message----- From:
> >>>> public-xg-htmlspeech-request@w3.org
> >>>> [mailto:public-xg-htmlspeech- request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>> Bjorn Bringert Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:26 AM To:
> >>>> Michael Bodell Cc: Olli@pettay.fi; Dan Burnett;
> >>>> public-xg-htmlspeech@w3.org Subject: Re: R13. Web application
> >>>> author should have ability to customize speech recognition
> >>>> graphical user interface
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree, I was trying to think of something along those lines
> >>>> too. Here's an alternative but pretty much equivalent wording,
> >>>> the only real change is dropping "graphical":
> >>>>
> >>>> "Web apps should be able to customize all aspects of the user
> >>>> interface for speech recognition, except for those aspects
> >>>> required for security and privacy."
> >>>>
> >>>> /Bjorn
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Michael
> >>>> Bodell<mbodell@microsoft.com>  wrote:
> >>>>> I think there is something here that is missing if we just
> >>>>> drop it which is that
> >>>> the graphical user interface for the speech recognition may be
> >>>> different for different web applications even in the same user
> >>>> agent and that we should not, where possible, bake in one user
> >>>> interface as much as possible.  Maybe a requirement that says
> >>>> something like "Web application authors should have no limits
> >>>> to their ability to customize the graphical user interface for
> >>>> speech recognition, except for those limitations which are
> >>>> necessary for security reasons"?  A better wording is likely
> >>>> possible, but I think that is the idea we should be capturing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From:
> >>>>> public-xg-htmlspeech-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-
> >>>> htmlspeech-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Bjorn Bringert
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 7:38 AM To: Olli@pettay.fi
> >>>>> Cc: Dan Burnett; public-xg-htmlspeech@w3.org Subject: Re:
> >>>>> R13. Web application author should have ability to customize
> >>>> speech recognition graphical user interface
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As Olli says, this requirement can't be fully compatible
> >>>>> with our
> >>>> requirements that the user must be notified when recording
> >>>> occurs. If the web app could customize everything about the
> >>>> recognition UI, it could make the notification invisible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Bjorn
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Olli
> >>>>> Pettay<Olli.Pettay@helsinki.fi>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Because of possible security reasons, some customization
> >>>>>> may not be possible, some may. In other words, web app
> >>>>>> author must not be able to control everything in the speech
> >>>>>> GUI.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> R13 has two parts. One is the "include a clickable graphic
> >>>>>> to invoke speech recognition", the other one is "indicate
> >>>>>> the progress of the recognition through various states". It
> >>>>>> is the first one which *may* need to be limited a bit. And
> >>>>>> the latter one is already implicitly handled in the
> >>>>>> requirement for different kinds of events.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Olli
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/08/2010 12:39 PM, Dan Burnett wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Group,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is the next of the requirements to discuss and
> >>>>>>> prioritize based on our ranking approach [1].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This email is the beginning of a thread for questions,
> >>>>>>> discussion, and opinions regarding our first draft of
> >>>>>>> Requirement 13 [2].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please discuss via email as we agreed at the Lyon f2f
> >>>>>>> meeting. Outstanding points of contention will be
> >>>>>>> discussed live at an upcoming teleconference.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -- dan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> >> htmlspeech/2010Oct/0024
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> .html
> >>>>>>> [2]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-
> >> htmlspeech/2010Oct/att-
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> 0001/speech.html#r13
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- Bjorn Bringert Google UK Limited, Registered Office:
> >>>>> Belgrave House, 76 Buckingham
> >>>> Palace Road, London, SW1W 9TQ Registered in England Number:
> >>>> 3977902
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Bjorn Bringert Google UK Limited, Registered Office:
> >>>> Belgrave House, 76 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 9TQ
> >>>> Registered in England Number: 3977902
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
Received on Thursday, 9 December 2010 17:09:12 GMT

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