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[wot-ig/wg] minutes - 13 September 2017

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 01:34:55 +0900
Message-ID: <CAJ8iq9W+VKoHMHnoAtV+j6ENgbgRkYqG0ctm_ir+nwn4Z6yY2Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Public Web of Things IG <public-wot-ig@w3.org>, public-wot-wg@w3.org
available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Michael McCool!

Kazuyuki

---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                               WoT IG/WG

13 Sep 2017

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Michael_McCool, Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster,
          Uday_Davuluru, Matthias_Kovatsch, Dave_Raggett,
          Zoltan_Kis, DarkoAnicic, Daniel_Peintner,
          Kazuo_Kajimoto, Niklas_Widell, Masato_Ohura,
          Barry_Leiba, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Yongjing_Zhang,
          Kazuaki_Nimura, Keiichi_Tokuyama

   Regrets
   Chair
          Matthias, McCool, Kajimoto, Yongjing

   Scribe
          McCool, kaz

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]quick updates
         2. [5]plugfest and tpac and next steps for wg
         3. [6]plugfest update
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     * [8]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <mkovatsc>
   [9]https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda

      [9] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda

   <kaz> scribenick: McCool

quick updates

   kaz: status of fpwd

   monday, found some minor issues, talked with editors and got
   clarifications

   will be working with the webmaster, and will get them published
   tomorrow

   matthias: dave offered to write a blog

   we are still deciding where it will go

   <inserted> scribenick: kaz

   matthias: mccool, workshop status?

   mccool: 2 proposals
   ... talked with the other proposer
   ... updated our proposal a bit
   ... to merge the 2 workshops together
   ... will circulate the updated proposal to the group
   ... we have to submit a paper to the NDSS workshop ourselves
   ... the other is IoT security
   ... security across various standards
   ... focus on Web of Things
   ... going to have to work on another proposal for IEEE workshop

   matthias: what is the motivation for the 2nd one?

   mccool: focus on standards
   ... NDSS one is broader
   ... would have more focused workshop for IEEE
   ... for NDSS workshop, paper deadline is in 2 months
   ... IEEE S&P is May
   ... much more time for review
   ... would generated an updated proposal for IEEE
   ... presenting at NDSS and get people involved
   ... and invite them to IEEE one

   <inserted> scribenick: McCool

   mccool: I will distribute the revised proposal; could use some
   more topics related to WoT if you have any suggestions

plugfest and tpac and next steps for wg

   matthias: now we have released fpwd
   ... some changes; want to get plugfest aligned with the fpwd
   ... so one goal is that we want to update node-wot to match the
   fpwd
   ... would also like to target the scenarios as well
   ... does anyone see any blockers for updating their
   implementations
   ... to match the fpwd
   ... asking implementors and leads

   kajimoto: what is viable target for plugfest implementors?
   ... consensus on what is viable
   ... thing description, changes at the plugfest every time
   ... so what is standard to define interoperability
   ... defined current practices as viable... but now we have fpwd

   mccool: do you want to define a subset of the fpwd for the
   plugfest?

   kajimoto: yes
   ... first step, update current practices to fpwd
   ... for thing description
   ... adding security support
   ... define purposes for next plugfest to prove concepts

   kaz: proposing organizing and orchestrating plugfest as a
   starting point
   ... but not sure we need a profile or a minimum subset
   ... would like some clairification

   matthias: about current practices document, have some responses

   kajimoto: use cases are good... but we should have some
   guidelines or standards for how to describe our semantics
   ... the current practices document was good to have something
   to target
   ... but now we have the td only, less specific
   ... would like to update the current practices document to
   match the fpwd

   matthias: overall, have plan that current practices needs to be
   adapted
   ... but main content is now in fpwd; normative content is there
   ... but there are some primary and secondary features; we
   should define which is which
   ... and it would also be useful to set some goals, for instance
   ... to describe their security features, test thing, use cases
   ... would this solve some of your issues?

   kajimoto: yes

   kaz: matthias has mostly covered my point
   ... we probably should update the current practices with
   whatever is not covered in other fpwd documents

plugfest update

   matsukura: plugfest update, sharing screen

   <kaz> [10]Matsukura-san's slides

     [10] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/att-0005/Issues_for_TPAC_plugfest_170913.pptx

   See issue #346

   <kaz> [11]Issue 346

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/346

   <McCool_> scribenick: McCool_

   matsukura: three kinds of servient
   ... exposed thing, consumed thing, servient (gateway)
   ... also integration model, 3-layer, 4-layer
   ... issues: interfaces between servients, authentication,
   discovery, TD exchange,
   ... NAT and firewall traversal
   ... event operation
   ... finally, TD management issues
   ... for TD management, how to create URI, who manages TD and
   how
   ... call for participation, want to accelerate preparation,
   share information
   ... so please share information about what you plan to do

   dape: mentioned authentication... some content used quite a
   while ago
   ... but not sure if it is still the state of the art

   <kaz> [12]current practice doc

     [12] http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-duesseldorf-2017.html

   matthias: mechanism in current practices is just one way of how
   it could be done
   ... but really we want to describe what is existing
   ... rather than defining our own mechanisms
   ... main comment is also about management of TDs
   ... we have a Thing Directory... at the moment is standalone
   ... but could also be merged with a (cloud) servient

   <Zakim> dape, you wanted to CP and authentication

   matthias: but might also have a sparql endpoing

   to support semantic search

   matsukura: some variations are possible

   matthias: could be included
   ... logically it could be a separate component

   <inserted> scribenick: kaz

   mccool: exposed OCF device as a Thing
   ... including CoAP as protocol
   ... question about security metada
   ... various decision to make about devices
   ... mechanisms for authentication
   ... we could for further
   ... we should pick examples

   <McCool_> mccool: I think we should pick some other platforms
   and figure out how to support them

   <inserted> scribenick: kaz

   mccool: interested in Amazon Alexa interface
   ... that's doable but don't want to identify any devices
   ... need to find out how to handle discovery
   ... more than one Thing Directory

   matthias: Thing Directory could be a good entry point

   mccool: multiple directories
   ... starting with one entry point
   ... can be a working assumption

   <inserted> scribenick: McCool_

   mccool: I want to build an Alexa service that can discover
   things and talk to them in a generic way

   matthias: good working assumption is one Thing Directory
   ... if there is more than one, they could still have a single
   front end and delegate, but we don't plan to do that for
   plugfest

   kaz: do we need an additional document?

   matsukura: yes, we need an additional document in addition to
   the PlugFest wiki
   ... need a specification
   ... we do want another document... but were? wiki? markdown?
   expand current practices document?

   matthias: propose re-expanding the current practices document
   ... but ultimately should go into arch... but current practices
   can be used to draft things

   <Zakim> dsr, you wanted to comment on work for TPAC on plain
   JSON and WebSocket based messaging protocol and ask about
   specific goals for interoperability testing

   dsr: hope to collaborate with mozilla... websockets, etc
   ... mozilla hopes to bring some actual devices
   ... dsr to bring some simulated devices

   <dsr> see:
   [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/
   0006.html

     [13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/0006.html

   dsr: wants to see us as a group to clarify our goals for
   interop testing
   ... dsr also looking at "plain JSON" description in collab with
   mozilla
   ... unfortunately ben is unavailable for now... dsr not ready
   to share

   matthias: would be better to share early

   dsr: is plain JSON aspect, is also web socket aspect

   matthias: can the ws aspect be aligned with panasonic?

   kajimoto: can you explain the current situation with ws
   communication?
   ... (asking panasonic members)
   ... have a document that panasonic sent to mozilla
   ... need to understand the differences in the approaches, is
   useful

   tokuyama: have to confirm these topics with rest of panasonic
   team and communications with mozilla
   ... but waiting for response from mozilla
   ... have already sent some material to them

   matthias: best if moz and panasonic can collaborate directly

   kaz: probably should send official invitation

   dsr: we already talked to them about this
   ... they are just waiting for internal authorization
   ... so we already talked about this; can send another email,
   but already aware

   kaz: point is they should enter their information on the wiki
   etc.

   dsr: yes, but they are still waiting for internal approval

   kaz: ok, will send a reminder

   dsr: but they are away until the end of the month

   kaz: please cc me when you contact him. I'll also cc you and
   the Chairs when I contact him.

   dsr: ok

   zkis: security and provisioning; even though we are not
   provisioning them, we still need to get client keys, etc. to
   talk to OCF devices
   ... so that is non-trivial
   ... we will have to provide some guidelines on how to do it

   mccool: and I'm not sure where we find OCF implementations that
   actually do this...

   matthias: anyone who brings device needs to figure this out
   ... the credentials can't go into TD, they have to be
   provisioned somehow
   ... ok, out of time...
   ... please do update info
   ... even siemens has to do this

   <kaz> [14]plugfest wiki

     [14] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_4-10_November_2017,_Burlingame,_CA,_USA#PlugFest_.284-5_Nov_2017.29

   matthias: and next to-do is to update the current practices

   <kaz> [15]current practices

     [15] http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html

   matthias: with focus on use cases

   mccool: what is timing of node-wot updates?

   matthias: will only be done just before the plugfest...
   ... will have to use current systems, and intercept
   ... need to work on a roadmap after cleanup

   mccool: good topic for next meeting

   matthias: may not be available next two weeks...

   dape: hope we can get it done sooner than two weeks before the
   plugfest

   matthias: would also be good to get test thing done early
   ... and that has a dependency on the scripting api

   mccool: also, McCool to chair next two meetings, Matthias will
   not be available

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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