W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > April 2017

Re: [whatwg] Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) blows the W3C/IETF Success Prevention Depts out of the water!

From: Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:19:31 +0000
To: Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotmail.com>, "whatwg@lists.whatwg.org" <whatwg@lists.whatwg.org>
Message-ID: <AM5P18901MB0161C21144252385A5B44DE2FB190@AM5P18901MB0161.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Hopefully the quoting below is legible: -

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard's Hotmail [mailto:maher_rj@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:09 AM
To: 'whatwg@lists.whatwg.org'
Subject: Re: [whatwg] Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) blows the W3C/IETF
Success Prevention Depts out of the water!

> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Roger
Hågensen <rh_whatwg@skuldwyrm.no> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-27 05:50, Richard Maher wrote:
>> Broadcast Messaging and Topic Based subscription is now available to your
>> WebApp just like native Apps thanks to FCM.
>>
>> https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/js/send-multiple
>>
>> I am absolutely ecstatic about this, as we all should be, and equally
>> grateful to FCM for having managed to bypass the recalcitrance and sheer
>> bloody-mindedness of spec-authors to provide functionality that everyone
>> outside the ivory-towers was begging for.
>>
>> I thought WhatWG was set up to challenge the delusional elite a la mode
de
>> HTML5? Why the silence?
> 
> Maybe because this is a Google API and cloud service rather than a 
> web standard added to Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Safari, 
> Opera, Vivaldi etc? Unless I'm missing some important detail here!

Yes it is a Google API. A browser agnostic Google API that runs on Chrome,
Firefox, Samsung, soon to be Opera, and Edge. Anything that runs
ServiceWorker and Push. While I would’ve preferred W3C/IETF to see the sense
and requirement for Topic-based subscriptions and broadcast messaging, the
Firebase API is from the same stable as other ubiquitous APIs such as Google
Maps? Analytics? Google+ logon.

>> Anyway rejoice and be glad as Native Apps have one less stick to beat us
>> over the head with. And you Firefox fans are no longer stuck with
Mozilla's
>> third-rate AutoPush!
>
> I'm not aware of anything called autopush, is this another cloud API?
> Or do you mean https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/API/Push_API ?

See:  - https://mozilla-push-service.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
 

>> Now if we can only get background geolocation with ServiceWorkers nothing
>> can stop WebApps: -
>> https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/745

> Considering I'm coding both native and "HTML5" based "apps" 
> there is far more that needs to be improved.
> There is no way to reliably know how much LocalStorage or 
> IndexDB space the web app has, trying to access or list files 
> locally in a folder is not possible, something as simple as a 
> editable soundboard can't be made if it's run locally (via file:
protocol).
> While Xinput is supported, DirectInput is not and there is a lot of 
> controllers out there that are not Xinput.
> Trying to save a file locally is a pain, you have to simulate a download. 
> Loading a audio file manipulating it and saving it again is not the 
> same as with a native app, instead you end up with a duplicate file 
> in the download folder instead of the original files folder.

If there is a requirement for Oracle 12G on a mobile phone then I’m sure
they will build it. In the meantime the fundamental service/retail-delivery
shift that the world is currently experiencing is crying out for background
geolocation Uber, Dominos, GrindR, Facebook, Deliveroo, Maps/Navigation and
on and on. 

Please let WebApps compete with Native Apps! 

> There is a difference between a Webapp that supports offline 
> and a offline "HTML5" app.
>
> Using NWN.js and Electron turns it into a native app anyway, 
> ideally one should not have to do this, at least not for "simple" apps.
>> PS. The cognoscente are once more assembling on April 4-5 for a Japanese
>> junket on ServiceWorkers to yet again wax bollocks on "offline first" :-(
>
> What is wrong with offline first? If you have a Ohms law 
> calculator and your internet is down there is no reason why it 
> should not still work if it was saved in the cache or even locally 
> as a .html file and opened in the browser while the internet is down.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans there’d be no worker for new age
travelers.
 
> It's rare for the internet to be down for long periods of time, 
> but usually it goes down wen it's the least convenient and not 
> having apps break and still work is important in those cases.

I don’t believe network reliability is an issue for the vast majority of the
money-spending public.

>> Please lobby the names that can be found in the hall of shame here: -
>> https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/1053

> Hall of shame? It sounds like you have some form of personal agenda here.

My agenda is to get Background Geolocation out there on Web Apps before it
is too late. Service Worker extensibility seems ideal to me but I don't
really care how it is done as long as it gets done.

Cheers Richard
Received on Tuesday, 18 April 2017 23:20:07 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 18 April 2017 23:20:10 UTC