W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > April 2017

Re: [whatwg] Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) blows the W3C/IETF Success Prevention Depts out of the water!

From: Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@chromium.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 20:49:27 -0700
Message-ID: <CANh-dXnC3Lg2xQh5HxWht9GOeCcoxYVGgvvpwBY6CBRAURqhSw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotmail.com>
Cc: "whatwg@lists.whatwg.org" <whatwg@lists.whatwg.org>
Please follow the WHATWG code of conduct when posting to this list:
https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct. In particular, I believe this
message violates:

   - Please be kind and courteous. There's no need to be mean or rude.
   - Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design
   or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is
   seldom a right answer.
   - You shall not insult, demean or harass anyone. We interpret the term
   "harassment" as including the definition in the Citizen Code of Conduct
   <http://citizencodeofconduct.org/>; if you have any lack of clarity
   about what might be included in that concept, please read their definition.
   In particular, we don't tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially
   marginalized groups.


Thanks,
Jeffrey

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Roger Hågensen <rh_whatwg@skuldwyrm.no<
> mailto:rh_whatwg@skuldwyrm.no>> wrote:
>
> On 2017-03-27 05:50, Richard Maher wrote:
> Broadcast Messaging and Topic Based subscription is now available to your
> WebApp just like native Apps thanks to FCM.
>
> https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/js/send-multiple
>
> I am absolutely ecstatic about this, as we all should be, and equally
> grateful to FCM for having managed to bypass the recalcitrance and sheer
> bloody-mindedness of spec-authors to provide functionality that everyone
> outside the ivory-towers was begging for.
>
> I thought WhatWG was set up to challenge the delusional elite a la mode de
> HTML5? Why the silence?
>
> Maybe because this is a Google API and cloud service rather than a web
> standard added to Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Safari, Opera, Vivaldi etc? Unless
> I'm missing some important detail here!
>
> Yes it is a Google API. A browser agnostic Google API that runs on Chrome,
> Firefox, Samsung, soon to be Opera, and Edge. Anything that runs
> ServiceWorker and Push. While I would’ve preferred W3C/IETF to see the
> sense and requirement for Topic-based subscriptions and broadcast
> messaging, the Firebase API is from the same stable as other ubiquitous
> APIs such as Google Maps? Analytics? Google+ logon.
>
> Anyway rejoice and be glad as Native Apps have one less stick to beat us
> over the head with. And you Firefox fans are no longer stuck with Mozilla's
> third-rate AutoPush!
>
> I'm not aware of anything called autopush, is this another cloud API?
> Or do you mean https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/API/Push_API ?
>
> See:  - https://mozilla-push-service.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
>
>
> Now if we can only get background geolocation with ServiceWorkers nothing
> can stop WebApps: -
> https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/745
>
> Considering I'm coding both native and "HTML5" based "apps" there is far
> more that needs to be improved.
> There is no way to reliably know how much LocalStorage or IndexDB space
> the web app has, trying to access or list files locally in a folder is not
> possible, something as simple as a editable soundboard can't be made if
> it's run locally (via file: protocol).
> While Xinput is supported, DirectInput is not and there is a lot of
> controllers out there that are not Xinput.
> Trying to save a file locally is a pain, you have to simulate a download.
> Loading a audio file manipulating it and saving it again is not the same as
> with a native app, instead you end up with a duplicate file in the download
> folder instead of the original files folder.
>
> If there is a requirement for Oracle 12G on a mobile phone and then I’m
> sure they will build it. In the meantime the fundamental
> service/retail-delivery shift that the world is currently experiencing is
> crying out for background geolocation Uber, Dominos, GrindR, Facebook,
> Deliveroo, Maps/Navigation and on and on.
>
> Please let WebApps compete with Native Apps!
>
> There is a difference between a Webapp that supports offline and a offline
> "HTML5" app.
>
> Using NWN.js and Electron turns it into a native app anyway, ideally one
> should not have to do this, at least not for "simple" apps.
> PS. The cognoscente are once more assembling on April 4-5 for a Japanese
> junket on ServiceWorkers to yet again wax bollocks on "offline first" :-(
>
> What is wrong with offline first? If you have a Ohms law calculator and
> your internet is down there is no reason why it should not still work if it
> was saved in the cache or even locally as a .html file and opened in the
> browser while the internet is down.
>
> If ifs and ands were pots and pans there’d be no worker for new age
> travelers.
>
> It's rare for the internet to be down for long periods of time, but
> usually it goes down wen it's the least convenient and not having apps
> break and still work is important in those cases.
>
> I don’t believe network reliability is an issue for the vast majority of
> the money-spending public.
>
> Please lobby the names that can be found in the hall of shame here: -
> https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/1053
>
> Hall of shame? It sounds like you have some form of personal agenda here.
>
> My agenda is to get Background Geolocation out there on Web Apps before it
> is too late. Service Worker extensibility seems ideal to me but I don't
> really care how it is done as long as it gets done.
>
> Cheers Richard
>
Received on Wednesday, 19 April 2017 03:50:19 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 19 April 2017 03:50:20 UTC