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Re: [whatwg] [url] Feedback from TPAC

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 15:05:14 -0500
Message-ID: <54568E7A.1030801@intertwingly.net>
To: Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org>, WhatWG <whatwg@whatwg.org>
On 11/02/2014 02:32 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
> On 01/11/2014 00:01, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>
>> 3) Explicitly state that canonical URLs (i.e., the output of the URL
>> parse step)
>> not only round trip but also are valid URIs.  If there are any RFC
>> 3986 errata
>> and/or willful violations necessary to make that a true statement, so
>> be it.
>
> It's not clear to me what it is that might be "willfully violated".

Perhaps nothing.

> Specifically, I find the notion of "relative scheme" in  [1] to be, at
> best, confusing, and at worst something that could break a whole swathe
> of existing URI processing.  I don't know which, as on a brief look I
> don't understand what [1] is trying to say here, and I lack time (and
> will) to dive into the arcane style used for specifying URLs.

First, I'm assuming that by [1], you mean 
https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#relative-scheme

Second, I have no idea how a specification that essentially says "here's 
what a set of browsers, languages, and libraries are converging on to 
convert URLs into URIs can break URIs.

Third, here's a completely different approach to defining URLs that 
produces the same results (modulo one parse error that Anne agrees[2] 
should changed in be in the WHATWG spec):

http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html#url

If for some reason you don't find that to be to your liking, I'll be 
glad to try to meet you half way.  I just need something more to go on 
than "arcane".

> I think there may be a confusion here between syntax and
> interpretation.  When the term "relative" is used in URI/URL context, I
> immediately think of "relative reference" per RFC3986.   I suspect what
> is being alluded to is that some URI schemes are not global in the
> idealized sense of URIs as a global namespace - file:///foo dereferences
> differently depending on where it is used - the relativity here being in
> the relation between the URI/URL and the thing identified, with respect
> the the where the URI is actually processed.

If you find it confusing, perhaps others will too.  Concrete suggestions 
on what should be changed would be helpful.

> To change the syntactic definition of "relative reference" to include
> things like file: and ftp: URIs would cause all sorts of breakage, and
> require significant updating of the resolution algorithm in RFC3986
> (more than would be appropriate for a mere "erratum", IMO).  I'm hoping
> this is not the kind of willful violation that is being contemplated here.

Note in reformulated grammar, file is no longer treated the same as 
other types of relative references.  I am not wedded to any of those 
terms, if you suggest better ones I'll accommodate.

If errata can be produced expeditiously for RFC3986, then there 
shouldn't be any need for willful violations.

> #g
> --

[2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2014Oct/0267.html
Received on Sunday, 2 November 2014 20:05:41 UTC

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