Re: Ripple a scam?

Is a clearance system an exchange?


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com
> wrote:

> "In 2009, Bitcoin was invented and changed everything. The world’s first
> decentralized digital currency, Bitcoin accounts and transactions required
> no gatekeepers and were recorded across the largest human network: the
> Internet. "
>
> "Now Ripple seeks to expand on what Bitcoin started. More than just a
> digital currency, Ripple is the world’s first open transaction network. It
> serves as a decentralized, shared record of accounts and transactions *of
> any kind*. By creating this global ledger, Ripple does for money what the
> Internet did for all other forms of information."
>
> source: https://ripple.com/blog/ripple-and-the-purpose-of-money/
>
> Now I'm confused...I think about the word decentralized. I'll have to
> spend more time looking at this.
>
> Here is a Technical Introduction by Brian Warner at Mozilla Labs
>
> https://people.mozilla.com/~bwarner/bitcoin/slides.html#1
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Brent Shambaugh <
> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For reference, Melvin Carvalho posted a link on the list to a video about
>> the future of Bitcoin by Mike Hearn. At the end of the talk (~24:48) Mike
>> mentions that Bitcoin is still centralized, but Ripple is a completely P2P
>> (decentralized) currency exchange.
>>
>>  "Mike Hearn on Bitcoin" Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:05 AM
>>
>> >Sorry posted this to wrong list, it was meant to be web payments
>>
>> >Some on the webid list may still find it interest, as it talks about
>> payment workflows between different identities aka 'smart >contracts' :)
>>
>>  >https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mD4L7xDNCmA
>>
>>
>> >On 31 March 2013 19:18, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mD4L7xDNCmA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree, I know a few of the ripple developers and they all assure me
>>> that they just want it critical-bugless before released.
>>>
>>> Put it this way, I trust it enough to hold several hundred thousand XRP
>>> and use it daily and give feedback + submit issues, so I for one trust it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey Cliff wrote:
>>>
>>>> It should be pointed out that the so far cloeed components are planned
>>>> to
>>>> be opened--the system is not yet stable enouhh and they are just trying
>>>> to
>>>> figure out how to do this in such a way thay they won't likely have to
>>>> reset the ledger afterwards.   In the meanwhile  it is sensible to not
>>>> use
>>>> it, given the source isn't finished yet...but the criticism *as a
>>>> system*
>>>> that it is closed is imho invalid.
>>>> On 2013-04-26 10:40 AM, "Nathan" <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Manu Sporny wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Interesting commentary on Ripple being a scam:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ripplescam.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #bitcoin #ripple #payswarm #w3c #futureofmoney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the arguments are fairly weak, I think the underlying
>>>>>> assumption
>>>>>> that the author is making is that Ripple is attempting to be Bitcoin
>>>>>> (it
>>>>>> isn't, it's a for-profit currency run by a corporation). So, if you
>>>>>> trust Ripple, most of the arguments go away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The open source argument is pretty solid, so is the one about hoarding
>>>>>> of XRPs. The OpenCoin developer arguing in the comment thread
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>> didn't help defend Ripple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the real argument is whether or not Bitcoin is better than
>>>>>> Ripple, and in this case, it completely depends on what you want out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the currency. Fast transactions? Use Ripple. Decentralized and open
>>>>>> source? Use Bitcoin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any commentary from payment folks on this list?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Yes! I use both daily, and heavily.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two things here:
>>>>> a) Ripple as a clearance system.
>>>>> b) Ripple XRP as a currency.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ripple as a clearance system is rather good, it'd be better if it was
>>>>> open
>>>>> source, but it's certainly setting the bar and more than usable (I use
>>>>> it
>>>>> daily). Worst case the rippled project can be reimplemented using the
>>>>> details on the wiki and using the API (which isn't great). The low
>>>>> friction
>>>>> and latency is hard to live without once you are used to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another + is that ripple has opensourced some rather good client
>>>>> libraries
>>>>> in Javascript, and lots of tooling for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ultimately you cannot directly compare Ripple and Bitcoin directly. You
>>>>> can compare the currencies, in which case there are two ways to
>>>>> compare and
>>>>> value them.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Traditionally, where the value of the currency is the amount of
>>>>> trust
>>>>> behind it
>>>>> 2) In ripple case, where XRP is a utility of the network, in which
>>>>> case 1
>>>>> XRP has the value of 10k-100k transactions depending on how the fees
>>>>> are
>>>>> set.
>>>>>
>>>>> The aside issue, is the distribution of the pre-mined currency. Are
>>>>> they
>>>>> doing this to get rich and get out, or get rich while making things
>>>>> better
>>>>> for the general population. If the first case then that sucks, if the
>>>>> second case then who cares? I'm sure we all hope Satoshi and the
>>>>> original
>>>>> bitcoin pushers are rich today, and likewise I hope the Ripplers will
>>>>> be
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ultimately, a well defined clearance system similar to ripple,
>>>>> supporting
>>>>> multiple currencies will and should become the norm, ripple is pushing
>>>>> the
>>>>> populations in the right direction. That can't be a bad thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brent Shambaugh
>>
>> I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching
>> how to build distributed economies.
>> Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
>> adistributedeconomy.blogspot.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brent Shambaugh
>
> I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching
> how to build distributed economies.
> Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
> adistributedeconomy.blogspot.com
>



-- 
Brent Shambaugh

I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching how
to build distributed economies.
Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
adistributedeconomy.blogspot.com