W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > April 2013

Re: Ripple a scam?

From: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:42:45 -0500
Message-ID: <CACvcBVqNf2k6s3WqBFVS7cB9tgt-Z8HkZcH2_62VapNGU=S+fw@mail.gmail.com>
To: nathan@webr3.org
Cc: Jeffrey Cliff <jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
"In 2009, Bitcoin was invented and changed everything. The world’s first
decentralized digital currency, Bitcoin accounts and transactions required
no gatekeepers and were recorded across the largest human network: the
Internet. "

"Now Ripple seeks to expand on what Bitcoin started. More than just a
digital currency, Ripple is the world’s first open transaction network. It
serves as a decentralized, shared record of accounts and transactions *of
any kind*. By creating this global ledger, Ripple does for money what the
Internet did for all other forms of information."

source: https://ripple.com/blog/ripple-and-the-purpose-of-money/

Now I'm confused...I think about the word decentralized. I'll have to spend
more time looking at this.

Here is a Technical Introduction by Brian Warner at Mozilla Labs


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com
> wrote:

> For reference, Melvin Carvalho posted a link on the list to a video about
> the future of Bitcoin by Mike Hearn. At the end of the talk (~24:48) Mike
> mentions that Bitcoin is still centralized, but Ripple is a completely P2P
> (decentralized) currency exchange.
>  "Mike Hearn on Bitcoin" Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:05 AM
> >Sorry posted this to wrong list, it was meant to be web payments
> >Some on the webid list may still find it interest, as it talks about
> payment workflows between different identities aka 'smart >contracts' :)
>  >https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mD4L7xDNCmA
> >On 31 March 2013 19:18, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mD4L7xDNCmA
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
>> I agree, I know a few of the ripple developers and they all assure me
>> that they just want it critical-bugless before released.
>> Put it this way, I trust it enough to hold several hundred thousand XRP
>> and use it daily and give feedback + submit issues, so I for one trust it.
>> Jeffrey Cliff wrote:
>>> It should be pointed out that the so far cloeed components are planned to
>>> be opened--the system is not yet stable enouhh and they are just trying
>>> to
>>> figure out how to do this in such a way thay they won't likely have to
>>> reset the ledger afterwards.   In the meanwhile  it is sensible to not
>>> use
>>> it, given the source isn't finished yet...but the criticism *as a system*
>>> that it is closed is imho invalid.
>>> On 2013-04-26 10:40 AM, "Nathan" <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
>>>  Manu Sporny wrote:
>>>>  Interesting commentary on Ripple being a scam:
>>>>> http://ripplescam.org/
>>>>> #bitcoin #ripple #payswarm #w3c #futureofmoney
>>>>> Some of the arguments are fairly weak, I think the underlying
>>>>> assumption
>>>>> that the author is making is that Ripple is attempting to be Bitcoin
>>>>> (it
>>>>> isn't, it's a for-profit currency run by a corporation). So, if you
>>>>> trust Ripple, most of the arguments go away.
>>>>> The open source argument is pretty solid, so is the one about hoarding
>>>>> of XRPs. The OpenCoin developer arguing in the comment thread certainly
>>>>> didn't help defend Ripple.
>>>>> I think the real argument is whether or not Bitcoin is better than
>>>>> Ripple, and in this case, it completely depends on what you want out of
>>>>> the currency. Fast transactions? Use Ripple. Decentralized and open
>>>>> source? Use Bitcoin.
>>>>> Any commentary from payment folks on this list?
>>>>>  Yes! I use both daily, and heavily.
>>>> There are two things here:
>>>> a) Ripple as a clearance system.
>>>> b) Ripple XRP as a currency.
>>>> Ripple as a clearance system is rather good, it'd be better if it was
>>>> open
>>>> source, but it's certainly setting the bar and more than usable (I use
>>>> it
>>>> daily). Worst case the rippled project can be reimplemented using the
>>>> details on the wiki and using the API (which isn't great). The low
>>>> friction
>>>> and latency is hard to live without once you are used to it.
>>>> Another + is that ripple has opensourced some rather good client
>>>> libraries
>>>> in Javascript, and lots of tooling for it.
>>>> Ultimately you cannot directly compare Ripple and Bitcoin directly. You
>>>> can compare the currencies, in which case there are two ways to compare
>>>> and
>>>> value them.
>>>> 1) Traditionally, where the value of the currency is the amount of trust
>>>> behind it
>>>> 2) In ripple case, where XRP is a utility of the network, in which case
>>>> 1
>>>> XRP has the value of 10k-100k transactions depending on how the fees are
>>>> set.
>>>> The aside issue, is the distribution of the pre-mined currency. Are they
>>>> doing this to get rich and get out, or get rich while making things
>>>> better
>>>> for the general population. If the first case then that sucks, if the
>>>> second case then who cares? I'm sure we all hope Satoshi and the
>>>> original
>>>> bitcoin pushers are rich today, and likewise I hope the Ripplers will be
>>>> too.
>>>> Ultimately, a well defined clearance system similar to ripple,
>>>> supporting
>>>> multiple currencies will and should become the norm, ripple is pushing
>>>> the
>>>> populations in the right direction. That can't be a bad thing.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Nathan
> --
> Brent Shambaugh
> I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching
> how to build distributed economies.
> Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
> adistributedeconomy.blogspot.com

Brent Shambaugh

I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching how
to build distributed economies.
Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
Received on Friday, 26 April 2013 17:43:12 UTC

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