Minutes, 2 Dec 2015 WebFonts call

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Minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html

and below as text


                 WebFonts Working Group Teleconference

02 Dec 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Rod, David, jfkthame, Sergey, Ken, Vlad, Chris

   Regrets
   Chair
          Vlad

   Scribe
          ChrisL

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]open action items
         2. [5]remaining public comments
     * [6]Summary of Action Items
     * [7]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> Scribe: ChrisL

   <RSheeter> Chris would you like to scribe or shall I?

   I was ready to (but thanks!) I'm fine this week

   (discussion on DPub IG and recent font discussions, licensing
   for online/offline/epub)

   Vlad: sorry for the delay in getting the changes done. Now
   ready for review

   [8]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/pendingreview

      [8] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/pendingreview

   RSheeter: have reviewed the spec changes

   jfkthame: found a few minor typoes, nothing major, will send to
   list

   action-184?

   <trackbot> action-184 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Add test for
   valid collection to spec & cts -- due 2015-09-09 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/184

      [9] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/184

   Vlad: if it rejects a collection, it still passes which is
   bogus so we add a conformance requirement to accept valid font
   collections and do something with it
   ... just a placeholder pn the CTS plan

   [10]https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent#mustL
   oadFontCollection

     [10] https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent#mustLoadFontCollection

   (it is fine)

   close action-184

   <trackbot> Closed action-184.

   action-187?

   <trackbot> action-187 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Incorporate
   jonathans hmtx suggestion into spec -- due 2015-10-14 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/187

     [11] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/187

   [12]http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#hmtx_table_format

     [12] http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#hmtx_table_format

   Vlad: several changes there, lets review all of them

   jfkthame: Think I am satisfied by these changes, it seems ok

   Vlad: original draft had hmtx transformation mandatory, now it
   is optional as discussed at f2f

   close action-187

   <trackbot> Closed action-187.

   action-188?

   <trackbot> action-188 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Update spec
   for flags, weith glyf and loca treated specially for historical
   reasons -- due 2015-10-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/188

     [13] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/188

   Vlad: as discussed at f2f, stepping back from original hard
   mandate on glyf and loca transforms, allow encoder to be more
   flexible.

   <RSheeter>
   [14]http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#conform-transformedL
   ocaMustAccompanyGlyf

     [14] http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#conform-transformedLocaMustAccompanyGlyf

   Vlad: so we made it possible to not transform, using a special
   flag. if both set to 1, tables are not transformed.
   ... so gives us 0 through 2 and space for other transforms
   ... added to spec and placeholders to CTS plan

   RSheeter: lgtm

   Vlad: special case is section 5.3, added condition to say
   actual transfrm 0 is optional, conditional on the other table
   ie do it to both or neither

   ChrisL: seems clear to me

   close action-188

   <trackbot> Closed action-188.

   action-189?

   <trackbot> action-189 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Clarify about
   shared hmtx tables, can only transform if all glyf tables match
   -- due 2015-10-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/189

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/189

   Vlad: depends on checking for all fonts in a collection, to
   look for shared tables
   ... change discussed at f2f
   ... this is also relevant to action-190

   action-190?

   <trackbot> action-190 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Add conf reqt
   on at and ff to test for non-transformable shared hmtx with
   non-atching metrics in the two glyf tables -- due 2015-10-20 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190

     [16] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190

   Vlad: not sure how to test without making it very complicated
   ... see comments on
   [17]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190

     [17] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190

   ChrisL: we don't test a lot of invalid bytestreams that the
   decoder still has to deal with.
   ... happy to leave this one as an untestable (FF)

   Vlad: so if we reconsider, just close the action with no change
   ... can keep open looking for new data

   RSheeter: just close it

   close action-190

   <trackbot> Closed action-190.

   close action-189

   <trackbot> Closed action-189.

open action items

   [18]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/open

     [18] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/open

remaining public comments

   Vlad: we still have some open issues from publiuc comment, need
   to close before requesting Candidate Recommendation
   ... issues with how some things are worded, c-like structures

   <RSheeter>
   [19]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/201
   5Nov/0000.html

     [19] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2015Nov/0000.html

   Vlad: from Frédéric, some issues are marked as deferred
   ... some changes impact existing implementation, hence
   deferred. Nice to have it clean and pure but we have to
   consider the cost
   ... his second comment was related to uint128 datatype
   ... would improve spec but is a breaking change

   ChrisL: does it make the spec clearer?

   Vlad: no
   ... he wants to eliminate the chance for overlap
   ... not a simple improvement. Invalidates all existing fonts

   RSheeter: prefer not to invalidate all deployed fonts

   jfkthame_: might have been better, but benefir no longer wirth
   the breakage cost

   Vlad: feel the same way

   RESOLUTION: do not change how uint128 works because it would
   break all deployed fonts

   jfkthame_: he is wanting pseudo code, not a format change

   RSheeter: I like that in a spec

   <scribe> ACTION: RSheeter to come up with pseudo code for the
   uint base128 description [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html#action01
   ]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-191 - Come up with pseudo code for
   the uint base128 description [on Roderick Sheeter - due
   2015-12-09].

   Vlad: table tags comment
   ... he is asking why allow a known table to be encoded as
   custom tag

   jfkthame_: have always wondered

   <RSheeter> we all want to know ... who is then left to answer
   :D

   jfkthame_: we no longer rely, with the flag bits, on table tags
   to see if it is transformed or not
   ... it is all defined by flags. That one would trigger impl
   changes, does not affect existing fonts

   ChrisL: would disallowing it have any impact

   RSheeter: our code already does it that way
   ... Vlad do you have a secret encoder?

   (laughs)

   RESOLUTION: accept change, known tags must use known tag format
   not custom tag format

   jfkthame_: so that need s a new decoder test. in theory this
   affect backwards compat, in practice it will not

   Vlad: next deferred one is why the decoder should verify the
   checksum
   ... need to find out exactly what he is asking there

   ChrisL: is it his question that is unclar?

   Vlad: no, need to follow up his references. discuss in email

   ChrisL: does the mathml get rendered properly?

   Vlad: no!

   RSheeter: prefer to say "it is C integer division" in words

   <RSheeter> even better specify what that actually means

   <jfkthame_> or write it as "4 * floor( (numGlyphs + 31) / 32)"

   Vlad: alternative is to keep original and add it is C notation.
   Division is C integer division

   <RSheeter> I like that

   ChrisL: like that too

   <scribe> ACTION: vlad to insert "4 * floor( (numGlyphs + 31) /
   32)" [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html#action02
   ]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-192 - Insert "4 * floor( (numglyphs +
   31) / 32)" [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2015-12-09].

   Vlad: last comment was related to defining flag components,
   bitshify vs explicit ref to bit numbers, like OT spec does
   ... seems reasonable

   RSheeter: prefer the bitshift version better, but not a strong
   opinion
   ... issue is they say bit 1, is that 0 or 1?

   Vlad: OT spec uses 0 to 15, so it is clearly defined

   RSheeter: clearer to me, but not necessarily the entire world.
   either is fine

   RESOLUTION: accept the comment on bit numbers

   Vlad: last question is already addressed. lsb vs lsb

   (adjourned)

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: RSheeter to come up with pseudo code for the uint
   base128 description [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html#action01
   ]
   [NEW] ACTION: vlad to insert "4 * floor( (numGlyphs + 31) /
   32)" [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html#action02
   ]

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [24]do not change how uint128 works because it would break
       all deployed fonts
    2. [25]accept change, known tags must use known tag format not
       custom tag format
    3. [26]accept the comment on bit numbers

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________

-- 
Best regards,
 Chris  Lilley
 Technical Director, W3C Interaction Domain

Received on Wednesday, 2 December 2015 22:04:24 UTC