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Re: [widgets] i18n <span> element VS unicode RLM/LRM

From: Marcos Caceres <marcosscaceres@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 22:47:27 +0100
Message-ID: <b21a10670810081447l5d040779vfe6abeb120c78b16@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Felix Sasaki" <fsasaki@w3.org>
Cc: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, "Web Applications Working Group WG" <public-webapps@w3.org>
Hi Felix (and i18n Core),
During our last WAF teleconf, WebApps decided to adopt your
suggestions (below). I've been attempting to integrate your
suggestions into the Widget Packaging spec [1]. Below I summarize what
draft text I have added thus far. I would really appreciate any
feedback if you think I've gone about specifying what you intended

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:
> Marcos Caceres wrote:
>> Hi, i18n-WG.
>> In recent feedback we received from Addison Phillips regarding the
>> Widgets 1.0: Packaging specification, he suggested that WebApps should
>> add a <span>-like element to our Widget Configuration Document format
>> (so to allow bidi text to be declared).
> I think such an element would only be necessary within these elements: name,
> description, author, license. It seems that only these elements may contain
> human readable text.
Agreed. More on this below.

> I personally would recommend you to use the <its:span> element in the ITS
> namespace. The element is defined at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#span
> This element gives you the "dir" attribute and various other attributes
> which are useful for esp. Widgets localization. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#att.local.no-ns.attributes
> See also the related "Best Practice" to define such an element for XML
> vocabularies at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#DevSpan
> To keep simplicity for Widgets 1.0, you could say in your conformance
> description that a Widgets processor has various options to deal with the
> <its:span> element (or more in general: the ITS namespace) and its
> attributes: ignore them or process them.

Ok, in the Widget User Agent conformance section I've added the
following text for your consideration:

"A widget user agent MAY support the Internationalized Tag Set's
<its:span> element and the its:dir attribute [ITS]. Support of any
other ITS elements and attributes is NOT REQUIRED. Although this
specification specifies the elements of the configuration document in
which <its:span> and its:dir can be used (below), it does not define
how they are to be interpreted and processed by a widget user agent.
If a widget user agent implements <its:span> and its:dir, then they
MUST do so in conformance to the processing rules defined by the ITS

Then I've added the following subsection to the Configuration Document

== Indicating text directionality and <its:span> ==
Although it is optional for a widget user agent to implement [ITS],
authors are may use the <its:span> element to indicate the
directionality of arbitrary content. Directionality is indicated by
using the its:dir attribute in conjunction with the <its:span>
element. The its:dir accepts one of the following values, as defined
in [ITS]:

dir="ltr"  - left to right text
dir="rtl"  - right to left text
dir="lro" - left-to-right override
dir="rlo" - right-to-left override

For example,

  <name>Yay for the  "<its:span dir="rtl">متعة الأسماك!</its:span>"

The <its:span> element can be only be used as a child of the following
elements of the configuration document:
  * <name>
  * <description>
  * <author>
  * <license>

> If you do not want to add markup from a specific namespace, you could or
> should IMO add extensibility points for people who need such markup. That
> is, change in the schema something like
> description = element description {
>  xmllang.att?,
>  text
> }
> to
> description = element description {
>  xmllang.att?,
>  any
> }
> and define "any" and a pattern "anyElement" as
> any= (attribute * { text }
>    | text
>    | anyElement)*
> anyElement =  element * { any }
> Again the conformance for such markup can say: ignore it ("it" meaning:
> markup from other namespaces) or process it. I think you are basically
> saying that already at http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#extensions

Agreed. Our schema will be updated to include the above.

Thank you again for your help! And looking forward to hearing any
feedback you might have,
Marcos Caceres
Received on Wednesday, 8 October 2008 21:48:14 UTC

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