Re: [W3C Web Security IG] TEE for all on android

On 2016-03-01 19:10, Berenzon, Alex wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Alex,

> Please note that there are other TEEs available today (and assuming more to come)
  > that are targeting general ISVs and not device integrators. Typically, in such TEEs,
  > a trusted application is isolated from the TCB of other trusted applications and their resources.

That's great but I don't see how such TAs could be called from "normal" (untrusted) Web pages
which is why the proposed extension concept could be an excellent companion for _finally
unleashing the power of TEEs_.  If there is another way, it doesn't appear to be publicly
documented. This is the core issue as I see it: http://webpki.org/papers/permissions.pdf

What's also somewhat related is that Microsoft removed the support for provisioning platform-
level X.509 certificates over the Web in their "Edge" browser and that Google and Mozilla
are planning to do that as well.  That is, _reducing_ the support for security HW on the Web.

To compensate for this loss of functionality they added support U2F which of course could be
supplied in a TA but that doesn't require any new API developments.

Anders
Former invited expert TrustedComputingGroup

PS http://ipt.intel.com/Home doesn't provide any detailed technical information on
     Intel's existing endeavors in this space DS

>
> - Alex.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anders Rundgren [mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 19:37
> To: GALINDO Virginie <Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com>; public-web-security@w3.org
> Cc: Wayne Carr <wayne.carr@linux.intel.com>; Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: [W3C Web Security IG] TEE for all on android
>
> On 2016-03-01 17:41, GALINDO Virginie wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In case you missed it, Trusty is offering to android developers an API to access some Trusted Execution Environment operations.
>>
>> See https://source.android.com/security/trusty/index.html
>
> Virginie,
>
> Thanx for the update.
>
> Unfortunately this only verifies my strong belief that the HW-Sec WG in progress is on the wrong track targeting TEEs from the Web since trusty applications are
> (AFAICT...) only deployable by device integrators.
>
> It would be better if the HW-Sec WG listened to the market which nowadays not only mean "Anders and Martin", but de-facto also includes Google with their suggested and implemented Android fix:
> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/issues/42#issuecomment-166705416
>
> Apparently even Mr. Arcieri essentially agrees with this:
> https://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-wpwg-minutes
> tarcieri: My personal opinion is the ability to intent into a native app ... make a payment from the mobile (native) web ... I'd like to see that capability in there one way or another
>
> That is, COMBINING the power of the Web and the App worlds would be a _fantastic project_, at least if innovation by third-parties is in scope.
>
> If W3C cannot do this for religious or political reasons, well, that's a pity because this development seems _inevitable_ as it would be a complete waste of valuable time and resources building parallel universes! It is not proved that it is technically feasible either.
>
> Regards,
> Anders
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Virginie
>>
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Received on Wednesday, 2 March 2016 05:45:49 UTC