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RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3

From: Li, Alex <alex.li@sap.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:31:34 -0700
Message-ID: <6D259B2A9E733043B2D8567C82C2FEF91A3CFFCB@uspalx23.pal.sap.corp>
To: "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca>, "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, "Ben Caldwell" <caldwell@trace.wisc.edu>
Cc: <public-wcag-teama@w3.org>

The term "component" is used all over 3.2 sc.  I can't see how graphical
components, such as gif, could be excluded from L2 SC3.  But we have no
definition of component. I suppose if it can receive focus, it should be
a component.

-----Original Message-----
From: David MacDonald [mailto:befree@magma.ca] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:20 AM
To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Ben Caldwell'; Li, Alex
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3

Hi Team

I agree that we combine 3.2 L2 SC3 and L3 SC1. The implication is that
the
requirement of text alternatives being consistent moves from level 3 to
level 2. But that does not bother me. I think a component is a catch
word
for anything that the user focuses on.

Cheers
David MacDonald

.Access empowers people
            .barriers disable them.

 www.eramp.com


-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:16 AM
To: 'Ben Caldwell'; 'Li, Alex'
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3


Here are the two in question

3.2 L2 SC3.  Components that have the  same functionality in multiple
delivery units within a set of delivery units are labeled consistently.
(Guide to 3.2 L2 SC3) 


3.2 L3 SC1. Non-text content that appears on multiple delivery units and
has
the same function has consistent text alternatives. (Guide to 3.2 L3
SC1)


I think the question is "what are components?" 

If they are only 'active' things then the two are different.   If any
gif or
jpg is a component and all non-text content is considered a component
then
L2SC3 covers L3SC1.   But if a gif or movie is NOT a component - then we
need both.   I think we could define component and delete L3SC1.  


What do others think?   What is included in component?  What would the
definition be?   (where else do we use component?) 
 
Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 


-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Ben Caldwell
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:40 PM
To: Li, Alex
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: Re: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3


I think option A is the way to go. Can't see a reason to require that 
non-text always have the same text alternative.

Alex's traffic light example is a good one and so is the one about 
previous/next icons. To me, as long as the function is conveyed in the 
alternative, there's nothing wrong with providing additional details.

(ex. a next page icon appears on multiple pages within a collection and 
includes alt="Next - page 2" alt="Next - page 3" etc.)

This isn't something I think we should be prohibiting at level 3, so I 
would suggest combining whatever relevant portions of the L3 SC1 guide 
doc with what we've got for L2 SC3.

-Ben

Li, Alex wrote:
> Forgot to send to all.
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Li, Alex
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:46 AM
> *To:* 'Gregg Vanderheiden'
> *Subject:* RE: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> I went back to the original text of the SC to examine the difference.

> According to the June 30th draft, L3 SC1 says "Graphical components
that 
> appear on multiple pages, including graphical links 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20050630/#linkdef>, are
associated 
> with the same text equivalents wherever they appear.".  The biggest 
> difference between the proposed SC and the June SC is that we changed 
> from "same" to "consistent".
>  
> That leaves us with two options:
>  
> Option A-varify that there is no way to fail L3 SC1 if L2 SC3 is 
> fulfilled and delete L3 SC1.  I don't think it is possible to fail L3 
> SC1 if L2 SC3 is met, given that the SC are written in its current
forms.
>  
> Option B-change L3 SC1 to "Non-text content that appears on multiple 
> delivery units and has the same function 
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunct
iond
ef> 
> has the same text alternatives."  This option implies that we demand
the 
> "same" text alternative or equivalent in level 3, given that we know 
> that the sc won't be applicable in some fairly common situations where

> icons are used. 
>  
> I don't see any appropriate technique to help web designers meet the
L3 
> sc1 in option B in those situations where icons are used for multiple 
> purposes for good reasons (traffic lights and document download
icons).  
> Assuming no technique is found, then we are still back to where we 
> were--no real difference between the two SC.  I would argue that there

> is no reason to selection option B because L2 SC3 guide doc contains a

> common failure that says labelling "search" and "find" for the same 
> function and icon would fail L2 SC3.  Assuming that we keep the common

> failure in place, I think the only logical decision is to remove L3
SC1.
>  
> All best,
> Alex
>  
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
>     [mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org]
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:51 AM
>     *To:* public-wcag-teama@w3.org
>     *Subject:* combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3
> 
>     1.) David, Alex, and I  have an action item to look a SC1 with 3.2
>     L2 SC3.   (Last week, we couldn't come up with any techniques for
>     the L3 item that wouldn't already be covered by the L2 SC.)
> 
>      
> 
>     Everyone - can you think of anything that would be covered by L3
>     SC1  that isn't covered by L2 SC3  (that isn't made up or
trivial)??
> 
>     I'll post a separate email that you can respond to on this.  Then
>     Alex, David and I will finish this up.
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     For your info - here is Level 2 and Level 3 of 3.2
> 
>      
> 
>     Please send your thoughts
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
> 
>           *Level 2 Success Criteria for Guideline 3.2 *
> 
>        1. Changing the setting of any input field does not
automatically
>           cause a change of context
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#context-c
hang
edef>.
>           (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC1
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC1>)
> 
>        2. Components that are repeated on multiple delivery units
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#deliveryu
nitd
ef>
>           within a set of delivery units occur in the same relative
>           order
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#relorderd
ef>
>           each time they are repeated. (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC2
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC2>)
> 
>        3. Components that have the same functionality
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunct
iona
litydef>
>           in multiple delivery units
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#deliveryu
nitd
ef>
>           within a set of delivery units are labeled consistently.
>           (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC3
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC3>)
> 
> 
>     [edit
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2&action=ed
it&s
ection=4>]
> 
> 
>           *Level 3 Success Criteria for Guideline 3.2 *
> 
>        1. Non-text content that appears on multiple delivery units and
>           has the same function
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunct
iond
ef>
>           has consistent text alternatives. (Guide to 3.2 L3 SC1
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L3_SC1>)
> 
> 
>      
> 
> 
>     Gregg
> 
>     ------------------------
> 
>     Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>     Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>     Director - Trace R & D Center
>     University of Wisconsin-Madison
>     _<http://trace.wisc.edu/>_ FAX 608/262-8848 
>     For a list of our list discussions http://trace.wisc.edu/lists/
> 
>       <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
Received on Wednesday, 26 October 2005 18:35:33 GMT

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