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Re: AW: Discussion 5.5

From: Elle <nethermind@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:07:29 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJ=fddNBHstUWNKpfkUmn6BQTiG=sYNOumEz-spPEMLU9-ghCQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>
Cc: "Velleman, Eric" <evelleman@bartimeus.nl>, Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de>, public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
Kerstin:

I agree.  If we can create an inventory of common evaluator errors, we can
minimize the impact of that kind of mistake.

I have a general question, somewhat related. Is the expectation that this
group will also produce a standardized step-by-step process for manually
testing web pages?  I've found that variation between different, equally
capable, expert testers to be problematic when delivering the results to
business owners.


Cheers,
Elle



On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Kerstin Probiesch <
k.probiesch@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> probably we should collect all possible errors and discuss how to prevent
> them?
>
> Best
>
> Kerstin
>
>
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Velleman, Eric [mailto:evelleman@bartimeus.nl]
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 22:44
> > An: Detlev Fischer; Kerstin Probiesch
> > Cc: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
> > Betreff: RE: AW: Discussion 5.5
> >
> > Hi Kerstin, Detlev,
> >
> > This is also an interesting margin of error.
> > The evaluator making mistakes.
> > This is an interesting thing to look at when we talk about
> > replicability. This would indicate that there is a margin of error from
> > the evaluators that influences replicability depending on the size of
> > the sample. Wiki indicates that it decreases with a larger sample.
> >
> > Do we accept errors by evaluators?
> > Kindest regards,
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Van: Detlev Fischer [fischer@dias.de]
> > Verzonden: donderdag 19 januari 2012 22:29
> > Aan: Kerstin Probiesch
> > CC: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
> > Onderwerp: Re: AW: Discussion 5.5
> >
> > Hi Kerstin,
> >
> > Whoops, I may have been on the wrong track. I guess what you refer to
> > describes uncertainty in *attestation*: evaluator's errors, omissions,
> > or misjudgements, not error = the pin-downable flaws that we find in
> > evaluating web sites. So maybe 'error' is best used exclusively as a
> > term to describe variance in the evaluation process? But then, wasn't
> > the term "margin of error" used in the context of marginal flaws that
> > might be acknowledged without preventing the attestation of
> > conformance? Not sure anymore, it's too late - must go back to the
> > discussion...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Detlev
> >
> >
> >
> > it just describes  Quoting Kerstin Probiesch
> > <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>:
> >
> > > Hi Detlev,
> > >
> > > "error margin" or "margin of error" is a term used in Test
> > Development. Some
> > > hints here:
> > > http://www.linguee.com/english-
> > german?query=margin+of+error&source=english.
> > > Some further explanations here:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error.
> > >
> > > Regs
> > >
> > > Kerstin
> > >
> > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > >> Von: Detlev Fischer [mailto:fischer@dias.de]
> > >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 21:16
> > >> An: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
> > >> Betreff: RE: Discussion 5.5
> > >>
> > >> Hi Tim,
> > >>
> > >> English isn't my first language, but doesn't 'error' indicate that
> > >> someone basically knew how to do something and erred (not always the
> > >> case with the problems we encounter)? Maybe 'flaw' is the more
> > >> accurate term? 'Failure instance' sounds pretty stilted and may
> > easily
> > >> get mixed up with (WCAG) Failures.
> > >>
> > >> Mhm..(scratching head)...mhm.
> > >>
> > >> Quoting "Boland Jr, Frederick E." <frederick.boland@nist.gov>:
> > >>
> > >> > According to some references I recently accessed, criticality
> > >> > implies that the evaluation cannot continue until the problem has
> > >> > been resolved, whereas non-criticality implies that the evaluation
> > >> > may proceed with the problem noted.
> > >> >
> > >> > A definition of "error" (from
> > >> > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/error?s=t
> > >> > ) "a deviation from accuracy or correctness"
> > >> > -which would seem to apply to "barrier" as well?
> > >> >
> > >> > A definition of "barrier" (from
> > >> > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barrier?s=t
> > >> > ) "anything built or serving to bar passage"
> > >> > -which would seem to imply criticality as mentioned previously
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > -----
> > >> >
> > >> > In many cases, distinguishing between critical and non-critical is
> > >> easy.
> > >> > A keyboard trap or a lightbox dialogue that pops up without screen
> > >> > reader users becoming aware of it is a critical violation. A
> > >> graphical
> > >> > navigation element without alt text is one as well. But a few
> > missing
> > >> > paragraphs or list tags in editorial content are probably non-
> > >> critical.
> > >> > However, there will be a grey area where the distinction is not so
> > >> easy.
> > >> > But that, in my view, should not lead to the conclusion that the
> > >> > distinction cannot or must not be made.
> > >> >
> > >> > Not sure about terms, though. Is 'error' a good term for non-
> > critical
> > >> > violations and 'barrier' a good term for critical violations?
> > >> >
> > >> > Detlev
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Detlev Fischer PhD
> > >> DIAS GmbH - Daten, Informationssysteme und Analysen im Sozialen
> > >> Geschäftsführung: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
> > >>
> > >> Telefon: +49-40-43 18 75-25
> > >> Mobile: +49-157 7-170 73 84
> > >> Fax: +49-40-43 18 75-19
> > >> E-Mail: fischer@dias.de
> > >>
> > >> Anschrift: Schulterblatt 36, D-20357 Hamburg
> > >> Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 58 167
> > >> Geschäftsführer: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Detlev Fischer PhD
> > DIAS GmbH - Daten, Informationssysteme und Analysen im Sozialen
> > Geschäftsführung: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
> >
> > Telefon: +49-40-43 18 75-25
> > Mobile: +49-157 7-170 73 84
> > Fax: +49-40-43 18 75-19
> > E-Mail: fischer@dias.de
> >
> > Anschrift: Schulterblatt 36, D-20357 Hamburg
> > Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 58 167
> > Geschäftsführer: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > =
>
>
>


-- 
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood,
divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast
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Received on Thursday, 19 January 2012 22:07:58 GMT

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