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RE: New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports statistics)

From: <trond.huso@ntb.no>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:06:16 +0000
To: <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-ID: <9EA5F0C979F9E3458D0153B950B3B98044033E82@NTB-EXCH-02.ntb.no>
Hi Jason,

I believe it did. Not familiar with the terms and so wasn't used to the 'we put the whole metainformation' in one go.
How would you model this if you want to tell:
"Jamie did a 20 feet air in the first run, 18 feet in the second and 18,5 in the third run at the X Games Huston in 2014 in Highest air competition"
Is the below the correct way to describe this?

'Jamie' - the subject (object) of the measurement
'2014 Houston X-Games, Run 1' - the duration of the measurement 
'20 feet' - the quantity that was measured '20' - the numerical value in the quantity 'feet' - the unit of measurement in the quantity
'2014 Houston X-Games, Run 2' - the duration of the measurement 
'18 feet' - the quantity that was measured '18' - the numerical value in the quantity 'feet' - the unit of measurement in the quantity
'2014 Houston X-Games, Run 3' - the duration of the measurement 
'18,5 feet' - the quantity that was measured '18,5' - the numerical value in the quantity 'feet' - the unit of measurement in the quantity

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Johnson (BING) [mailto:jasjoh@microsoft.com] 
Sent: 5. september 2014 01:21
To: Husø Trond; public-vocabs@w3.org
Subject: RE: New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports statistics)

Hi Trond,

Thanks for pointing that out - I have already made updates to a draft version that establishes more consistency in usage of examples throughout the document.

Re: your examples, the soccer example is correct, but it looks like we're not aligned on what consists of 'duration' vs 'quantity' in the x-games example.  See my updated version below and notes explaining my reasoning.  Let me know if that clears it up.

"'Jamie did a 20 feet air at the X Games Huston in 2014 in the Highest air competition, in the first run..."

'Jamie' - the subject (object) of the measurement
'2014 Houston X-Games, Run 1' - the duration of the measurement **
'20 feet' - the quantity that was measured '20' - the numerical value in the quantity 'feet' - the unit of measurement in the quantity

** This is a bit confusing due to the complexity of modeling event series and super/sub events.   Extrapolating on your example, let's further assume that :

a.  It was during the first run of the 'Men's Super-Bike Freestyle Event' in which Jamie achieved 20 feet of air.
b. The Men's Super-Bike Freestyle Event is composed of three (3) runs, scored independently c.  The Men's Super-Bike Freestyle Event is one of many other events that take place during the 2014 X-Games Competition in Houston, TX

What we have is three distinct yet related Event instances.  It is the first event (a) - the first run - which defines the duration of the measurement.

Does that clear things up?



-----Original Message-----
From: trond.huso@ntb.no [mailto:trond.huso@ntb.no]
Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 2:50 AM
To: public-vocabs@w3.org
Subject: RE: New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports statistics)

Dear Jason,

Great work. And a valuable contribution. 
Looks good. Just one suggestion:
In the document you are using the imaginable player John, but in the examples below there are no references to this example. I am suggesting you add how you use schema.org to mark up / design what you have defined in the example.
Again: Just a suggestion, not a demand.

The information I am referring to is on page 1 and at the top of page 2.

Just to test your example with another sport:
I want to describe that 'Jamie did a 20 feet air at the X Games Huston in 2014 in the Highest air competition, in the first run..."
Jamie - Subject of the measurement
X Games Huston 2014, highest air competition - is the duration
1 run - the quantity that was measured
20 - is the number in that quantity
Feet -is the unit in that quantity

Also testing with soccer:
Description to be tested: 'John has received two yellow cards during the Norwegian Elite series'
John - Subject of the measurement
Norwegian Elite series - the duration
2 Yellow cards - is the quantity that was measured
2 - is the number in that quantity
Yellow cards - is the unit in that quantity...

Are both these examples correct, or did I miss something?

(I have not marked this up with JSON as I have not done any real schema.org markup like that (not completed schema.org-for-dummies-class.... ;) ))

Trond


All,

I have published a new draft (1.1) of this proposal that incorporates updates based on community feedback thus far.  Please take a look and let me know how you like the updates.

Cheers,

- Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Johnson (BING) [mailto:jasjoh@microsoft.com]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 10:43 AM
To: Mike Bergman; Simon.Cox@csiro.au; public-vocabs@w3.org
Subject: RE: New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports statistics)

+1

Thank you for sharing Simon :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bergman [mailto:mike@mkbergman.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 4:56 PM
To: Simon.Cox@csiro.au; Jason Johnson (BING); public-vocabs@w3.org
Subject: Re: New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports statistics)

Hi Simon,

Thank you; these two references are super.

Mike

On 8/28/2014 6:38 PM, Simon.Cox@csiro.au wrote:
> If you are dabbling in this area, possibly worth aligning terminology 
> with VIM [1], and standards In the technical community such as ISO
> 19156 O&M (summarized at [2] and links). ‘Measurement’ is generally 
> understood as a special case of ‘observation’, being a value 
> estimation event whose result is a scaled number (i.e. a ‘quantity’).
>
> [1] http://www.bipm.org/en/publications/guides/vim.html

>
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observations_and_Measurements

>
> *From:*Jason Johnson (BING) [mailto:jasjoh@microsoft.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, 28 August 2014 4:08 AM
> *To:* public-vocabs@w3.org
> *Subject:* New Proposal - Measurement (in support of describing sports
> statistics)
>
> In order to support describing sports statistics, we need the ability 
> to describe measurements that happen over a certain time period, where 
> the value of the measurement can either be a quantity or a rate.  Our 
> current schema.org vocabulary is not sufficient to cover these needs 
> but models, somewhat inconsistently, various aspects of it.  This 
> proposal aims to clean up the existing vocabulary a bit and introduce 
> new terminology to meet the needs of describing sports statistics.
>
> Impacted classes and properties include:
>
> http://schema.org/StructuredValue

>
> http://schema.org/QuantativeValue

>
> http://schema.org/value

>
> http://schema.org/unitCode

>
> The Sports proposal is dependent upon review and approval of this 
> proposal or similar alternative.  The ItemList proposal also takes 
> advantage of this proposal.
>
> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Measurement

>
> https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Schema.orgMeasurement.pdf

>
> I look forward to your timeline feedback.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Jason Johnson*
>
> Microsoft | Bing
>

Received on Monday, 8 September 2014 12:07:20 UTC

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