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Re: Am I right that WebPage lacks a generic property for linking to WebPageElement?

From: Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 03:34:21 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFQgrbZXtwLfR=S9YJ9AO2oQbFEXpgSKtjt5AuG6D-Q+Ai6Puw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org>
Cc: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>, Public Vocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
mainContentOfPage wouldn't do the trick either since that would define
WebPageElements as being, well, the main-content, while in this type of
case it should be defined as secondary content. And if not that, than at
least some sort of a mechanism to connect WebPageElements to a WebPage
should be available. As well as for the entities they contain.

Now I'm fine with it if it becomes 'hasPart' as opposed to 'mentions' in
combination with 'about', since I don't especially prefer one way over the
other. I do would like to know how to advance from hereon though and while
I'm at it, maybe some clarity in the form of a code example at
schema.orgcould do wonders as well.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:23 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:

>  I see there is a proposed http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/mainContentOfPagethat can connect the WebPage to various types of HTML fragments like
> http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/WPSideBar.
>
>  It seems odd that any HTML fragment describable as a WPSideBar would be
> worthy of a "mainContentOfPage" property, but it's within the documented
> range of that property. Using it would relieve the schema:mentions and
> schema:hasPart properties for use with non-HTML-dependent domain and range
> entities.
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
> wrote:
>
>   For me the issue isn't the Product here. I'm looking for the proper way
> to connect WebPageElements and the entities they contain together. I'd like
> to know how to connect WPHeader, WPSideBar and their likes to WebPage (and
> it's subclasses).
>
>  Next to that I'd also like to know how to connect entities within things
> like WPSideBar to them. Now I understand a bit of context comes inoi play
> here but many sites also have a multitude of WebPageElements which have
> nothing to do with the WebPage you are on but are on a page for more
> general reasons. Think generic site elements like 'Most popular articles'
> (ItemList), 'Customerservice' (ContactPoint), 'Subscribe to newsletter'
> (Action) and so on. Which are shown to the visitor to trigger them into an
> Action or to lead a person to a totally different part of a site about a
> different subject altogether.
>
>  Now as Martin mentioned in the beginning of this thread, connecting
> WebPageElements to a WebPage could be done by means of the 'mentions'
> property and that's what I've being doing for more than a year already. But
> like Niklas and Karen pointed out, the 'hasPart' property of the 'WebSchemas/Periodicals,
> Articles and Multi-volume Works' could semantically be even better.
>
>  And in Dan Brickley test build from January 28th (
> http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/WebPage), WebPage has the hasPart property.
>
>  That why I came back to this thread with my questions.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:
>
>>  It seems like it would be more natural to use schema:Offer to connect
>> the schema:Product with a schema:Person or schema:Organization via the
>> schema:seller property. The Web page stuff can factor out. Here's a blog
>> that describes a solution the SchemaBibEx group suggest for libraries:
>>
>>
>> http://coffeecode.net/archives/281-Mapping-library-holdings-to-the-Product-Offer-mode-in-schema.org.html
>>
>>  This is a knockoff of how commercial offers could be marked up.
>>  Jeff
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:19 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   What I mean is this:
>>
>>  <body itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ItemPage">
>>     <main itemprop="text">
>>         <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Product
>> ">[...]</article>
>>     </main>
>>
>>      <aside itemprop="mentions" itemscope itemtype="
>> http://schema.org/WPSideBar">
>>         <section itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org
>> "/ContactPoint>[...]</section>
>>         <section itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org
>> "/ItemList>[...]</section>
>>      </aside>
>> </body>
>>
>>  Now if the proposal gets accepted this easily could become:
>>
>>  <body itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ItemPage">
>>     <main itemprop="text">
>>         <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Product
>> ">[...]</article>
>>     </main>
>>
>>      <aside itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="
>> http://schema.org/WPSideBar">
>>         <section itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org
>> "/ContactPoint>[...]</section>
>>         <section itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org
>> "/ItemList>[...]</section>
>>      </aside>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:09 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:
>>
>>>  Do you have an example?
>>>
>>>  In my experience, WebPages often describe some primary entity and
>>> WebPageElements describe some secondary entity. If you model *those things*
>>> using Schema.org, the question of whether one entity "mentions" or
>>> "hasPart" the other becomes easier to consider.
>>>
>>>  Jeff
>>>
>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I was wondering, is there a conclusive answer yet as to whether it's
>>> alright to connect a WebPageElement to a WebPage by means of the 'mentions'
>>> property or will it be the 'hasPart' property once the
>>> 'WebSchemas/Periodicals, Articles and Multi-volume Works' proposal is
>>> done/accepted and should I start using that already?
>>>
>>>  I'm already using 'mentions' for about a year now on multiple sites
>>> and I'm doubtful on how to proceed on new sites.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Martin Hepp <
>>> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Wes,
>>>> Tanks, but I think we need a conceptual element at the level of
>>>> schema.org, independent of syntax. One day people will use JSON-LD to
>>>> expose respective information, so HTML5- or WAI-ARIA elements are of
>>>> limited use.
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 19, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Wes Turner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > WAI-ARIA:
>>>> >
>>>> >     role="navigation" aria-label="main navigation"
>>>> >
>>>> > HTML5:
>>>> >
>>>> >     <nav aria-label="main navigation">
>>>> >
>>>> > Though for backward compatibility, it may be helpful to also specify
>>>> role="navigation" with HTML5 <nav> elements.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAI-ARIA
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_nav_element
>>>> >
>>>> > Wes Turner
>>>> > On Jan 19, 2014 2:49 AM, "Martin Hepp" <
>>>> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
>>>> > Dear all:
>>>> >
>>>> > As far as I understand,
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
>>>> >
>>>> > would provide a nice way of exposing the meaning of, and meta-data
>>>> for, page elements, which could be used by search engines e.g. for guessing
>>>> the best contextual links (as opposed to breadcrumbs, which imply some kind
>>>> of hierarchy). In particular, one could nicely use
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement
>>>> >
>>>> > to mark-up important links inside the page, which would often make
>>>> good contextual links.
>>>> >
>>>> > Unfortunately,
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/WebPage
>>>> >
>>>> > does not define a generic property for linking from the WebPage to
>>>> multiple
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
>>>> >
>>>> > entities in the same page.
>>>> >
>>>> > Formally,
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/mentions
>>>> >
>>>> > would work, but I am unsure whether this is intended.
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/isPartOf
>>>> >
>>>> > would work from the perspective of the
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement,
>>>> >
>>>> > but could lead to circular processing of the data.
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/mainContentOfPage
>>>> >
>>>> > works only for the most important WegPageElement.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think the best solution would be to add a property
>>>> >
>>>> >     http://schema.org/pageElement
>>>> >
>>>> > Indicates that the web page element is a relevant part of the Web
>>>> page (e.g. for linking from a web page to its site navigation elements).
>>>> >
>>>> > What do others think? Did I miss anything?
>>>> >
>>>> > Martin
>>>> >
>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > martin hepp
>>>> > e-business & web science research group
>>>> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>> >
>>>> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>>>> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>>>> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>>>> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>>> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>>> > skype:   mfhepp
>>>> > twitter: mfhepp
>>>> >
>>>> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>>> > =================================================================
>>>> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> martin hepp
>>>> e-business & web science research group
>>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>>
>>>> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>>>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>>>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>>>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>>> skype:   mfhepp
>>>> twitter: mfhepp
>>>>
>>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>>> =================================================================
>>>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Saturday, 22 March 2014 02:34:49 UTC

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