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Re: Am I right that WebPage lacks a generic property for linking to WebPageElement?

From: Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 02:23:49 +0000
To: Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
CC: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>, Public Vocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-ID: <B398BB36-6D79-4384-8D51-887B61FE7D05@oclc.org>
I see there is a proposed http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/mainContentOfPage that can connect the WebPage to various types of HTML fragments like http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/WPSideBar.

It seems odd that any HTML fragment describable as a WPSideBar would be worthy of a "mainContentOfPage" property, but it's within the documented range of that property. Using it would relieve the schema:mentions and schema:hasPart properties for use with non-HTML-dependent domain and range entities.

On Mar 21, 2014, at 9:10 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl<mailto:jarno@quantumspork.nl>> wrote:

For me the issue isn't the Product here. I'm looking for the proper way to connect WebPageElements and the entities they contain together. I'd like to know how to connect WPHeader, WPSideBar and their likes to WebPage (and it's subclasses).

Next to that I'd also like to know how to connect entities within things like WPSideBar to them. Now I understand a bit of context comes inoi play here but many sites also have a multitude of WebPageElements which have nothing to do with the WebPage you are on but are on a page for more general reasons. Think generic site elements like 'Most popular articles' (ItemList), 'Customerservice' (ContactPoint), 'Subscribe to newsletter' (Action) and so on. Which are shown to the visitor to trigger them into an Action or to lead a person to a totally different part of a site about a different subject altogether.

Now as Martin mentioned in the beginning of this thread, connecting WebPageElements to a WebPage could be done by means of the 'mentions' property and that's what I've being doing for more than a year already. But like Niklas and Karen pointed out, the 'hasPart' property of the 'WebSchemas/Periodicals, Articles and Multi-volume Works' could semantically be even better.

And in Dan Brickley test build from January 28th (http://sdo-wip3.appspot.com/WebPage), WebPage has the hasPart property.

That why I came back to this thread with my questions.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org<mailto:jyoung@oclc.org>> wrote:
It seems like it would be more natural to use schema:Offer to connect the schema:Product with a schema:Person or schema:Organization via the schema:seller property. The Web page stuff can factor out. Here's a blog that describes a solution the SchemaBibEx group suggest for libraries:

http://coffeecode.net/archives/281-Mapping-library-holdings-to-the-Product-Offer-mode-in-schema.org.html

This is a knockoff of how commercial offers could be marked up.
Jeff

On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:19 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl<mailto:jarno@quantumspork.nl>> wrote:

What I mean is this:

<body itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ItemPage">
    <main itemprop="text">
        <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Product">[...]</article>
    </main>

    <aside itemprop="mentions" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WPSideBar">
        <section itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org"/ContactPoint>[...]</section>
        <section itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org"/ItemList>[...]</section>
    </aside>
</body>

Now if the proposal gets accepted this easily could become:

<body itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ItemPage">
    <main itemprop="text">
        <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Product">[...]</article>
    </main>

    <aside itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WPSideBar">
        <section itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org"/ContactPoint>[...]</section>
        <section itemprop="hasPart" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org"/ItemList>[...]</section>
    </aside>
</body>




On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:09 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org<mailto:jyoung@oclc.org>> wrote:
Do you have an example?

In my experience, WebPages often describe some primary entity and WebPageElements describe some secondary entity. If you model *those things* using Schema.org<http://Schema.org>, the question of whether one entity "mentions" or "hasPart" the other becomes easier to consider.

Jeff

On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, "Jarno van Driel" <jarno@quantumspork.nl<mailto:jarno@quantumspork.nl>> wrote:

I was wondering, is there a conclusive answer yet as to whether it's alright to connect a WebPageElement to a WebPage by means of the 'mentions' property or will it be the 'hasPart' property once the 'WebSchemas/Periodicals, Articles and Multi-volume Works' proposal is done/accepted and should I start using that already?

I'm already using 'mentions' for about a year now on multiple sites and I'm doubtful on how to proceed on new sites.


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org<mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>> wrote:
Hi Wes,
Tanks, but I think we need a conceptual element at the level of schema.org<http://schema.org>, independent of syntax. One day people will use JSON-LD to expose respective information, so HTML5- or WAI-ARIA elements are of limited use.
Martin

On Jan 19, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Wes Turner wrote:

> WAI-ARIA:
>
>     role="navigation" aria-label="main navigation"
>
> HTML5:
>
>     <nav aria-label="main navigation">
>
> Though for backward compatibility, it may be helpful to also specify role="navigation" with HTML5 <nav> elements.
>
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAI-ARIA
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_nav_element
>
> Wes Turner
> On Jan 19, 2014 2:49 AM, "Martin Hepp" <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org<mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>> wrote:
> Dear all:
>
> As far as I understand,
>
>     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
>
> would provide a nice way of exposing the meaning of, and meta-data for, page elements, which could be used by search engines e.g. for guessing the best contextual links (as opposed to breadcrumbs, which imply some kind of hierarchy). In particular, one could nicely use
>
>     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement
>
> to mark-up important links inside the page, which would often make good contextual links.
>
> Unfortunately,
>
>     http://schema.org/WebPage
>
> does not define a generic property for linking from the WebPage to multiple
>
>     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
>
> entities in the same page.
>
> Formally,
>
>     http://schema.org/mentions
>
> would work, but I am unsure whether this is intended.
>
>     http://schema.org/isPartOf
>
> would work from the perspective of the
>
>     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement,
>
> but could lead to circular processing of the data.
>
>     http://schema.org/mainContentOfPage
>
> works only for the most important WegPageElement.
>
> I think the best solution would be to add a property
>
>     http://schema.org/pageElement
>
> Indicates that the web page element is a relevant part of the Web page (e.g. for linking from a web page to its site navigation elements).
>
> What do others think? Did I miss anything?
>
> Martin
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org<mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217<tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217>
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620<tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620>
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org<mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217<tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217>
fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620<tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620>
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp
twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================
* Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
Received on Saturday, 22 March 2014 02:24:24 UTC

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