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Re: 2014 Sports Proposal - V3

From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider <pfpschneider@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:19:10 -0700
Message-ID: <53A1052E.5000902@gmail.com>
To: "Jason Johnson (BING)" <jasjoh@microsoft.com>, PublicVocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
CC: Tom Grahame <tom.grahame@bbc.co.uk>, "paul@xmlteam.com" <paul@xmlteam.com>, Alice Swanberg <alices@yahoo-inc.com>
I was in the middle of thinking about sports when I saw your message, so I
was very interested in seeing what proposals there are to handle sports.
However, after reading your document I have many questions.


Let's start with the definition of a sport.

What makes a sport professional?  Is that there are professional
competitions in it?  Then just about everything listed as olympic sports are
professional, but the "(additive)" seems to indicate otherwise.

Is a sport necessarily competitive?  Skiing is not necessarily competitive.
Is recreational skiing a sport?  If not, you are using up a term for
something that more naturally should be used for something else.

Is a sport necessarily athletic?  Some non-athletic activites, e.g., chess,
have governing bodies that belong to associations of sports governing bodies.

What is a sport?  Is it a competitive activity that follows certain rules?
This can't be, as just about every sport you list has variants that are
played under different rules.  Is a sport something that has a governing
body to codify several sets of rules?  This doesn't work either, as only a
couple of the sports you list have particular governing bodies.  Is a sport
something that people think of as a natural grouping?  This seems closer,
but hockey doesn't fit here as ice hockey and field hockey are so very
different.  Without some guidance as to what a sport is, how can there be
any commonalities between what people use as sports?

What makes something a team sport?  Only teams compete in Nascar, not
individuals, for example.  Pairs tennis is competed by two players, which
might be considered to be a team.  There are team competitions in tennis.
Are olympic sports contested by teams or by individuals?

You have several olympic sports.  However, half of these are not actually
olympic sports according to Wikipedia.  Snowboarding is a discipline of
skiing, swimming is a displine of aquatics, track isn't even a discpline.



What makes a team a home team?  Is a home team the team that is most closely
related to the venue?  What happens then when the New York Giants play the
New York Jets?  Is instead a home team the team that is somehow designated
by the rules of the competition as the home team?

What is the decision for a tie?  What is the decision for a cricket draw?

Some sports governing bodies, including cricket, provide for different kinds
of status situations for events.  For example, baseball games can be in
various states for quite some time, including suspended and protested, and
can end up never being officially completed.

Why is the range of sport Text?  This seems to invite abuse, with no way to
recover.   Why not define a Class for sports, and let "things as strings"
handle situations where text is used as a value?  The particular example of
using a string that just happens to be the URL of a Wikipedia page only gets
you the worst of both worlds.

What is a coach?  Is a baseball (field) manager a coach?  Is a general
manager a coach?  The answers here are fairly obvious, but it would be
worthwhile, I think, to include some guidance.


There are no separate classes for leagues or governing bodies, which are
very important for almost all the sports you list, and are vitally important
for the olympics.  There does not appear to be any way to discuss seasons
or any other sort of multi-event competition except as sub-events, and Event
is very poorly set up for anything besides a single-admission event.  There
does not appear to be any way to connect an sports event to the sport being
played or to the sanctioning body of the event.


I think that these questions and concerns need to be addressed before the
proposal can be considered to be mature.


Peter F. Patel-Schneider

On 06/16/2014 02:57 PM, Jason Johnson (BING) wrote:
> All,
>
> I’m pleased to formally announce and encourage review and feedback on an
> updated version of the 2014 Sports Vocabulary proposal that was originally
> shared earlier this year
> <http://blog.schema.org/2014/02/schemaorg-sports-vocabulary.html> in January.
> This is the third (and hopefully final) major update to the proposal since
> then with major changes including:
>
> - overhaul of the statistics and event results vocabulary and data model
>
> - removal of the ‘Event Series’ vocabulary in favor of the more generic
> Itemlist proposal
>
> - significant re-formatting to make the doc more readable
>
> - alignment with the new Role based vocabulary and data model
>
> A full list of changes can be found in the Change Log at the bottom of the
> exported PDF <https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:2014SportsVocab-v3.pdf>.
>
> W3c Wiki Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Sports
>
> Exported PDF: https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:2014SportsVocab-v3.pdf
>
> Below are links to some of the new terms within a test build of Schema.org.
>
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsOrganization
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Statistic
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsTeam
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Decision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/WinDecision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/LoseDecision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsEvent
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/CompetitionEvent
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Decision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/PlaceDecision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/DidNotFinishDecision
> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/EventCompleted
>
> REGARDING FEEDBACK:  Although this effort originated in the schema.org sports
> collaboration google group
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sports-schema-collab>, in the
> interests of consolidated feedback, I encourage everyone to simply use this
> W3c based public-vocabs mailing list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Jason Johnson*
>
> Microsoft | Bing
>
Received on Wednesday, 18 June 2014 03:19:43 UTC

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