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Re: offeredBy to supersede vendor, merchant, provider, seller, …?

From: Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:40:31 +0000
To: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>
CC: "Wallis,Richard" <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, "<public-vocabs@w3.org>" <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A410A787-E1D8-4E13-9D4D-B07DAC7E0BFC@oclc.org>
Building on your suggestions, I would be tempted to change the description of ‘provider' to “The person or organization providing the service, item, reservation, or creative work. The provider may subcontract out the supply of such.”,  and expand its domain to include Offer

Make ‘serviceProvider’, ‘carrier’ & ‘seller' subProperties of ‘provider’.

That should cover everything including the non-commercial.

~Richard

On 17 Jun 2014, at 17:55, Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com<mailto:vtardif@google.com>> wrote:

I would like to resurrect this discussion.  I propose the following:

1. The provider property has existed on CreativeWork for some time and is heavily used. Leave it as is.
2. Deprecate all other uses of provider under a new property "serviceProvider". The domain would be:
    BusTrip
    Flight
    Reservation
    Service
   TrainTrip

3. Keep carrier on ParcelDelivery.
4. Deprecate carrier on Flight.
5. Expand the domain for the existing serviceOperator to include Flight. Flight > serviceOperator replaces Flight > carrier.
6. Deprecate vendor in favor of BuyAction > seller.
7. Deprecate merchant in favor of Order > seller.

We are still left with non-commercial Offers using the term "seller". Any thoughts on a more inclusive term are welcome.

- Vicki



Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com<mailto:vtardif@google.com>



On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org<mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
Re "non-commercial": Non-commercial offers are no different from other others, except for that you do not expect a compensation, so you could simply say that the price is 0 EUR/USD an then it will be clear for a client that what you offer is for free.

Martin

Martin I think your reply was meant for this thread - not the one you added it to. ;-)

I agree that Offer, especially after the description was tweaked is equally applicable for commercial or non-commercial offers.  My concern is the assumed commercial nature of a ‘seller’ “a person who sells something"

~Richard

Begin forwarded message:

Resent-From: <public-vocabs@w3.org<mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>>
From: "Wallis,Richard" <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org<mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>>
Subject: Re: offeredBy to supersede vendor, merchant, provider, seller, …?
Date: 4 June 2014 08:05:52 BST
To: "Jason Johnson (BING)" <jasjoh@microsoft.com<mailto:jasjoh@microsoft.com>>
Cc: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com<mailto:vtardif@google.com>>, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com<mailto:thadguidry@gmail.com>>, Simon Spero <sesuncedu@gmail.com<mailto:sesuncedu@gmail.com>>, "<public-vocabs@w3.org<mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>>" <public-vocabs@w3.org<mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>>, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org<mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>>

Whilst we are looking at this, which makes sense to me, can we address the issue of Offer.seller being inappropriately named for non-commercial offers (e.g.. to loan a book).

This could be simply solved by extending the domain of provider to include Offer.

Also would it make sense to make seller a sub property of provider - in the light of  “If a 'seller' is not provided, it is assumed the 'provider' is also the 'seller’."

~Richard

On 4 Jun 2014, at 00:05, Jason Johnson (BING) <jasjoh@microsoft.com<mailto:jasjoh@microsoft.com>> wrote:

Properties and Classes associated with describing the entities involved in offering or selling something.

provider - The person or organization providing the service, reservation, or creative work. The provider may subcontract out the service.
Service.provider
Taxi.provider
GovernmentService.provider
CreativeWork.provider
Reservation.provider **
Flight.provider
TrainTrip.provider
BusTrip.provider

serviceOperator - The operating organization, if different from the provider. This enables the representation of services that are provided by an organization, but operated by another organization like a subcontractor.
GovernmentService.serviceOperator

bookingAgent - If the reservation was not booked directly through the provider, the third-party booking agent can be recorded through this property.
Reservation.bookingAgent **

vendor - A sub property of participant. The seller. The participant/person/organization that sold the object.
BuyAction.vendor

merchant - The party taking the order (e.g. Amazon.com<http://amazon.com/> is a merchant for many sellers).
Order.merchant

seller - The organization or person making the offer.
Offer.seller

carrier - The party responsible for the parcel delivery.
Flight.carrier
ParcelDelivery.carrier

** note that Reservation encompasses the subclasses (BusReservation, EventReservation, FlightReservation, FoodEstablishmentReservation, LodingReservation, RentalCarReservation, ReservationPackage, TaxiReservation, TrainReservation)

Proposed Changes

•         Leverage 'provider' to describe the service provider, service operator, or service performer and update its description to more clearly indicate this intended usage;
•         Leverage 'seller' property to describe the entities which sell a service on behalf of the actual service provider. In the case of flights, this would be the airline through which a flight was booked.  If a 'seller' is not provided, it is assumed the 'provider' is also the 'seller'.
•         Introduce a 'marketplace' property to describe the entities through which 'sellers' (or 'providers' as sellers) advertise themselves and are discovered by buyers or agents of the buyer.  Amazon and Expedia would be examples of marketplaces.
•         Introduce an 'agency' property to describe entities which purchase or book services from sellers on behalf of entity for which the service will be performed.  Concur travel agency would be an example of an agency.

•         deprecate 'vendor' in favor of re-using 'seller'
•         deprecate 'merchant' in favor of a new 'marketplace' property; avoids confusion w/ 'seller'
•         deprecate 'carrier' within Flight and ParcelDelivery in favor of using the newly described 'provider'
•         leverage 'provider' to describe what 'serviceOperator' is intended to describe and leverage 'seller' to describe what was previously described via 'provider'
•         deprecate 'bookingAgent' in favor of the proposed more generic 'agency' property


From: Vicki Tardif Holland [mailto:vtardif@google.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM
To: Thad Guidry
Cc: Simon Spero; PublicVocabs; Martin Hepp
Subject: Re: offeredBy to supersede vendor, merchant, provider, seller, …?


On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com<mailto:thadguidry@gmail.com>> wrote:
Cape Air could also be a provider as well... they "provide the flight" .. for the cost of a ticket offeredBy a vendor American Airlines.  Would that be true, Vicki ?

In theory, yes. If Cape Air provided the ticket, the provider would be Cape Air and one could add the redundant statement that Cape Air is also the operator.

I would like the vocabulary to be a little less ambiguous on this point so that authors have some hope of getting their markup correct.

- Vicki


Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com<mailto:vtardif@google.com>
Received on Tuesday, 17 June 2014 17:41:03 UTC

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