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Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse

From: Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:19:52 -0600
Message-ID: <CACfEFw_vkg0CRVd2kAFKVxJA4_u0DZv8kfbuVX9Pbju4TQGivg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Barker, Phil A" <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
Cc: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>, GUANGYUAN PIAO <parklize@gmail.com>, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>, Public Vocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
"Which URI / URL is the canonical identifier for a course, over time?"

With the number of course aggregators and offerings out there, it could be
helpful to document guidance on this matter.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> re: CourseSession / Class / CourseSection / Workshop
>
> https://itacademy.unomaha.edu/ is an "IT Professional Academy" which
> offers "Workshops" that could have educationalAlignments .
>
> ASCII sort may be a good deciding factor here.
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>
>> Is this satisfied by http://schema.org/isPartOf , or is there a need for
>> a more specific property?
>>
>> > 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate
>> class on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it
>> is online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also
>> apply to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>>
>> So long as there is something to indicate that a Course is a "MOOC".
>>
>> > 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>
>> This could indeed be useful for e.g. modeling a Syllabus.
>>
>> Use Case: I've been thinking about how to express a curriculum set
>> with/as RDFa. I have a number of PDFs; and I have a number of wikipedia
>> topic/concept links which are advantageous in that they are translated
>> conceptual identifiers, in dbpedia. These could be 'educationalAlignment'
>> 'AlignmentObject.targetURL' s, if they were an 'established educational
>> framework.' [1][2] ... How do I legitimize this with parenthetical
>> notations and necessary RDFa?
>>
>> In consultation with the authors of SKOS about adding prefPluralLabel
>> (not likely, in the near future), I learned about
>> http://rdf-vocabulary.ddialliance.org/xkos.html , which demonstrates
>> usage of rdf:List ; which would be useful for expressing an ordered set of
>> syllabi things that have URIs and metadata.
>>
>> > 4. [normative epistemiology:
>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/learning-formal/ ]
>>
>> "Education must provide the opportunities for self-fulfillment; it can at
>> best provide a rich and challenging environment for the individual to
>> explore, in [his] own way." -- Chomsky
>>
>>
>> > [...] do you have some usecases in mind and target example websites?
>> It's difficult to assess whether these properties are sufficient and
>> realistic without those.
>>
>> If you have the time to dig through, this thread [3] lists a number of
>> hypothetical and actual use cases:
>>
>>
>>    - http://www.edumine.com/
>>    - http://www.ieee.org/portal/innovate/products/educational/
>>    - https://www.futurelearn.com/
>>    - https://www.udacity.com/
>>    - https://www.edx.org/
>>    - https://www.coursera.org/
>>    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_learning_management_systems
>>    - [University] Course Catalogs contain prerequisites and
>>    matriculation requirements
>>    - US Primary education standards: http://www.corestandards.org/
>>    "Common Core"
>>       - This could potentially be extremely useful for discovering
>>       useful curriculum resources
>>    - https://developers.google.com/edu/curriculumsearch/
>>    (educationalAlignment -> "Course")
>>
>>
>>    - Src: https://github.com/edx/
>>    - Src:
>>    https://github.com/classcentral/class-central/tree/master/src/ClassCentral/SiteBundle/Entity
>>
>>
>> [1] https://westurner.github.io/redditlog/#comment/ci3c1o3
>> [2] https://wrdrd.github.io/docs/consulting/knowledge-engineering.html
>> [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0131.html
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Vicki, thanks for the heads up, I would have missed this otherwise.
>>>
>>> I have added some comments to the Google Doc, the most significant are:
>>>
>>> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>>
>>> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class
>>> on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is
>>> online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply
>>> to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>>>
>>> 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>>
>>> 4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US English
>>> is one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate to
>>> specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors
>>> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means
>>> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in
>>> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important
>>> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target
>>> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are
>>> sufficient and realistic without those.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>>> *Sent:* 15 December 2014 18:40
>>> *To:* Wes Turner
>>> *Cc:* GUANGYUAN PIAO; Thad Guidry; Aaron Bradley; Public Vocabs
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse
>>>
>>>   (I commented on GitHub, but I am not sure if everyone is over there,
>>> so I am duplicating the message here.)
>>>
>>>  I have read through all of the comments and background links and
>>> attempted to pull the various ideas into a cohesive whole. My thoughts are
>>> still rather preliminary, but can be found at
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>  It would be nice to be able to support in-person classes (academic or
>>> not) and MOOCs.
>>>
>>>  Please comment here or on GitHub.
>>>
>>>  - Vicki
>>>
>>>
>>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've created a GitHub issue ticket for this Proposal:
>>>>
>>>>  https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues/195
>>>>
>>>>  cc'ing a comment here, because DRY:
>>>>
>>>>   What is missing or could be added?
>>>>> From
>>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0127.html :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Properties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - derivedFrom/previousIncantation property could also be helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - prerequisitve/buildsUpon/suggestedPrerequisite properties would
>>>>>>    be great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Types for these properties would need to be <Course>.
>>>>
>>>>  ... This would then form a graph of Courses and/or OnlineCourses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  It may be most helpful to transition discussion to a task-focused
>>>> GitHub issue.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In creating said ticket [openbadges/openbadges-specifiation/9], I'm
>>>>> having trouble linking to the entirety of a mailing list thread (who know).
>>>>>
>>>>>  Is there / should there be an issue for OnlineCourse here:
>>>>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've opened a ticket with the OpenBadges specification project:
>>>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/issues/9
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > How could/should we reference badges offered by a
>>>>>> schema.org/OnlineCourse ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > We could point to just URIs, but then we'd need to lookup badge
>>>>>> titles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Would it be feasible to create schema.org/Badge ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:11 PM, GUANGYUAN PIAO <parklize@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  1. Is it worth adding a "prerequisiteCourse" property to list the
>>>>>>>> prerequisites for the given course?
>>>>>>>>      - IMO, "prerequisiteCourse" or "requirements" for the Course
>>>>>>>> could provide rich snippets for users to know if it
>>>>>>>> is appropriate for him/her.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Where can I add topical links to wikipedia (dbpedia [1])? e.g.
>>>>>>> This course is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data and
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] http://lod-cloud.net/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   2. Can we change "isCertificateAvailable" from a boolean to
>>>>>>>> something with a little more data? Maybe the type of certificate granted or
>>>>>>>> the institution granting the certificate?
>>>>>>>>      - +1, and then it will need Certificate type and additional
>>>>>>>> properties to think about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  http://openbadges.org/ are gaining momentum. [2]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Would "credential" be a more generic predicate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Open_Badges
>>>>>>> [3] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges
>>>>>>> [4] https://github.com/mozilla/openbadges#mozilla-open-badges
>>>>>>> [5]
>>>>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/blob/master/Assertion/latest.md
>>>>>>> (JSON Web Signatures)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>> Wes Turner
>>>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>> Wes Turner
>>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> Wes Turner
>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2014 13:20:31 UTC

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