W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > June 2012

Re: New proposal: health & medical extensions to schema.org

From: Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 15:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <pnv695alf7lkkj5vfv1rrv3p.1338588877481@google.com>
To: Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>, public-vocabs@w3.org
On Tue May 29 15:50:50 GMT-400 2012, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Better.  Although both examples given are of the "skeletal" system,
> scapula and vertebrae . My understanding was that something like
> SuperficialAnatomy could cover ALL types of anatomical systems.  That was
> the original intent of the type, Correct ?


Yup correct.


>
> Here's the thing... in my mind I was actually thinking of showing
> differing anatomy examples.  Like the median cubital (vein) used in
> phlebotomy.  What characteristics of the median cubital (vein)
> http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/Vein could be observed as being
> SuperficialAnatomy ?  I do like the scapula example over the vertebrae, btw.
>

In Phelbotomy, in order to find the median cubital vein, you'd use the
superficial anatomy of the cubital fossa to identify its borders, such as
the epicondyles of the humerus, then palpate within to find the vein. In
this latter step you'd use characteristics like size, prominence, ability
to refill after depression, and feel of surrounding tissue support, to
identify the right vein. (See below for a more detailed discussion from our
colleagues at Wikidoc).

So in marking up a text describing this procedure, I'd probably tag as
SuperficialAnatomy the palpable landmarks used to identify the vein as well
as the specific characteristics of the vein itself, like size.

Hopefully that helps...I've updated the schema proposal to include a brief
version of this example as well, at
http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/SuperficialAnatomy

Here's the full writeup from Wikidoc:

"Letís approach this from the actual anatomical landmark called the cubital
fossa.

The cubital fossa is defined as a triangular area that lies anterior to the
elbow consisting of three borders  (proximal boundary is the medial to
lateral epicondyle of the humerus, medial boundary is the lateral border of
the pronator teres to the medial epicondyle of the humerus, and the lateral
border is the medial border of the brachioradialis originating from the
lateral supraepicondylar ridge of the humerus). The superficial boundary of
the cubital fossa is the skin (or superficial fascia) in which the median
cubital vein, the lateral cutaneous and medical cutaneous nerves of the
forearm rest. The deep boundary of the cubital fossa are the brachialias
and supinator muscles.

In superficial palpation, the cubital fossa can be palpated to find the
brachial pulse (found just medial to the tendon). The brachial pulse is
where you would put your stethoscope for blood pressure measurements.

Now, if you can palpate the borders of the cubital fossa (such as the
epicondyles of the humerus) you will also be able to find the median
cubital vein by palpation of the underlying anatomical structures. A
palpation of a vein for phlebotomy involves feeling the vein for size,
prominence, ability to refill after depression, and feel of surrounding
tissue support."



> After shoring that up... I would say it's good enough for promotion.
>

Great, thanks again for your insightful comments and input!

--Aaron


> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Thad, we've updated the SuperficialAnatomy description (
> http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/SuperficialAnatomy) with an
> example and some more explanation - hopefully this helps reduce the
> confusion with AnatomicalStructure!
>
> --Aaron
>
>
> On Sun May 20 18:44:29 GMT-400 2012, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Looks much better, Aaron !
>
> The only other thing that I noticed would be a very slight confusion
> perhaps between an AnatomicalStructure and a SuperficialAnatomy.  I think
> what would clear things up in my mind would be to see an example itself
> within the description of SuperficialAnatomy that would contrast it
> with/against an AnatomicalStructure.  Take a more specific
> AnatomicalStructure like the Triceps brachii muscle<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triceps_brachii_muscle> and
> work in some form of SuperficialAnatomy example from it.  Make sense ?
>
>
> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Thad and all,
>
> A couple of updates. First we've rewritten the descriptions for
> MedicalStudy <http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalStudy>,
> MedicalTrial <http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalTrial>, and
> MedicalObservationalStudy<http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalObservationalStudy>on the site to increase clarity here. Let me know if you have further
> suggestions on this.
>
> We've also clarified the description of adverseOutcome and
> severeAdverseOutcome in MedicalTherapy<http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalTherapy>per other comments on this thread, and updated the formatting of the markup
> examples to be a bit clearer regarding nested <span>s.
>
> Thanks for the input so far!
>
> --Aaron
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com> wrote:
>
> The example you cite below would best modeled as a MedicalTrial.
> Basically, a MedicalTrial is a controlled clinical trial in the traditional
> sense (people recruited to study a particular intervention, divided into
> treatment and control groups), whereas MedicalStudy is a more general
> umbrella type that covers these and other kinds of studies, including
> uncontrolled observational studies<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observational_study> (MedicalObservationalStudy)
> like the Nurses' Health Study where a group of people are observed over a
> period of time.
>
> Does that help clarify? I'll look at making the documentation crisper here.
>
> --Aaron
>
>
>
> On Mon May 14 20:01:21 GMT-400 2012, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Which type to use for an instance such as:
> http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00587600?spons=%22Mayo+Clinic%22&spons_ex=Y&rank=7
>
>
> Mayo Clinic has 938 trials listed there currently, which I think could
> also be typed as a MedicalStudy<http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalStudy>
> .
>
> A bit confusing if each of those 938 listed would be either a MedicalStudy<http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalStudy> or
> a MedicalTrial <http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalTrial>.
>
> Does the mere fact that a Thing HAS A clinicaltrials.gov Identifer make
> it one over the other ?  It seems given your MedicalStudy description that
> those instances would be a MedicalStudy.  Example from above : NCT00587600
>
> Perhaps just more documentation is needed for Medical Trial <http://schemaorg-medicalext.appspot.com/MedicalTrial>itself to
> make the differences more apparent ?
>
> --
> -Thad
> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry
>
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Brown | Senior Product Manager | Google, Inc. | New York, NY
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Thad
> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Thad
> http://www.freebase.com/view/en/thad_guidry
>
Received on Friday, 1 June 2012 22:15:08 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Friday, 1 June 2012 22:15:09 GMT