W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > December 2008

Re: new issue? dfxp and language selection

From: John Birch <john.birch@screen.subtitling.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:51:00 -0000
Message-ID: <4476B296B92A4741A49B0BD01759070099FC93@sss-uk-ex-02.screen.subtitling.local>
To: <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Cc: <daniel.weck@gmail.com>, <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>, <gadams@xfsi.com>, <public-tt@w3.org>
I used the sequence element simply because I adapted Daniel's example...
The example omits any timing element but it was assumed by me to indicate a sequential presentation... So the english sequence would be presented temporally as "TYRE SCREECH! Quick! Put the body in the boot!"

I added a comment about this example requiring selection at the foot of my original email (quoted below)...BTW by alt. markup I meant markup to indicate that these were alternatives... In a manner similar to the HTML alt usage... Sorry I didn't make that clearer...

"BUT what is interesting here is that the two text strings (excluding the sound effect representation) ARE equivalents. 
What is certain is that BOTH should NOT be displayed. Perhaps some form of alt. markup is required :-)"

Without an implicit assumption of content selection I agree that additional markup would be required to show that intent (selective content) - hence the comment about the alt tag above (although I do realise that alt in HTML has a somewhat different intended usage :-)

Best regards,
John
Sent by Blackberry

John Birch | Screen Subtitling Systems Ltd | Strategic Partnerships Manager
Main Line : +44 (0)1473 831700 | Ext : 270 | Office :  
Mobile: +44 (0)7919 558380 | Fax: +44 (0)1473 830078
john.birch@screen.subtitling.com | www.screen.subtitling.com
The Old Rectory, Claydon Curch Lane, Claydon,Ipswich,IP6 0EQ,United Kingdom


See us at Broadcast Video Expo – February 17th – 19th 2009, Earls Court 2, London, Stand number K56


Before Printing, think about the environment

----- Original Message -----
From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
To: John Birch
Cc: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>; Hayes Sean <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>; Glenn A. Adams <gadams@xfsi.com>; Public TTWG List <public-tt@w3.org>
Sent: Thu Dec 04 21:06:57 2008
Subject: Re: new issue? dfxp and language selection

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 3:45 AM, John Birch
<john.birch@screen.subtitling.com> wrote:
>
> It's a good explanation, but I fear I'm not quite getting my point across.
>
> Two selection scenarios are common in subtitling.
>
> A) target audience language selection. Probably at a level immediately below body level between multiple 'functionally equivalent' yet language differentiated divs.
> B) Removal of inline content because of user preference. For example, in a movie with hard-of-hearing subtitles, a user may wish to turn off the subtitles pertaining to sound effects, but retain those relating to speech. Note: this can be done with current spec using ttm:role attribute.
>
> I agree that DFXP should include a marker that makes an explicit statement about intent.
> E.g. This content is intended for french speakers.
> Or perhaps go further... E.g. This content is intended for french speakers who are also deaf (although this can be finessed using the role attribute).
>
> I agree with Sean that I think that the same type of selection that might be achieved by language matching and switch constructs can be achieved by processing - PROVIDED that sufficient markup exists in the document to identify content with sufficient granularity.
>
> So my suggestion would be
>
>   <sequence ttm:lang="fr" title="Titre en français">
>     <p ttm:role="sound">FANFARE!</p>
>     <p>Ce texte est en français.</p>
>     <p ttm:lang="fr-CA">Ce texte est en québécquois.</p>
>   </sequence>
>
>   <sequence ttm:lang="en" title="Title in English">
>     <p ttm:role="sound">TYRE SCREECH!</p>
>     <p>Quick! Put the body in the boot!</p>
>     <p ttm:lang="en-US">Quick! Put the body in the trunk!</p>
>   </sequence>


How does a processor know to treat this as content selection and not
as text to be displayed sequentially, as the "sequence" tag is
suggesting?

Regards,
Silvia.


This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. Screen Subtitling Systems Ltd. Registered in England No. 2596832. Registered Office: The Old Rectory, Claydon Church Lane, Claydon, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP6 0EQ
Received on Thursday, 4 December 2008 21:51:45 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 2 November 2009 22:41:39 GMT