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Re: User intended interactions [1st & 3rd Parties]

From: Tom Lowenthal <tom@mozilla.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:18:51 -0800
Message-ID: <4EBA295B.6060309@mozilla.com>
To: Jonathan Mayer <jmayer@stanford.edu>
CC: Shane Wiley <wileys@yahoo-inc.com>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
Yes, Shane, thanks for catching that! #4 was supposed to be:

> 4. The user loads a new article. There is an advertisement on the
> page. The user's mouse hovers over the advertisement for several
> seconds, but they do not click. The ad is at all times a third party.

I think that we have broad consensus on the principle, but there are
some open items in the nitty-gritty. We may wish to work on these
details, but they should not be our most pressing concerns at this time.

I think we should talk about URL shorteners, and try to identify the
line there. I don't think that the group has thought enough about this
use case to reach consensus yet, and there are some tricky twiddly bits.
However, I think that this is a lower priority item.

Jonathan's first point is quite important. It seems that we should have
a conversation about this detail. Though not urgent, it's something we
should approach sooner rather than later.

To Jonathan's second point I would argue for an objective reasonableness
standard. I don't think that users need to be familiar with that
*particular* brand, simply that they recognize the element in question
to be distinctly branded from the primary page that they intended to visit.

On 11/08/2011 09:07 PM, Jonathan Mayer wrote:
> Two more use cases to consider (somewhere between #7 and #8).
> 
> Example 1: The user visits a site with a clearly-branded Accuweather.com weather widget. The user recognizes the branding and scrolls the widget forward to see tomorrow's weather.  The user expects to simply move the forecast ahead; the user does not expect Accuweather to collect cross-site tracking data.
> 
> Discussion: What is it the user must know or expect about the widget provider?  In this case, the user knows she is interacting with another website, but does not know/expect that cross-site tracking data is being collected.
> 
> Example 2: The user visits a site with a clearly-branded Accuweather.com weather widget. The user does not recognize the branding and scrolls the widget forward to see tomorrow's weather.
> 
> Discussion: Are we requiring actual knowledge/expectation by users?  Or something more like an objective reasonableness standard, such as what the average user might know or expect?
> 
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Shane Wiley wrote:
> 
>> Tom,
>>
>> Great examples - they do a good job of capturing intended versus unintended interaction (1st party as a 3rd party).  I believe it becomes a bit more difficult to draw crisp lines around the shortened URLs scenarios - extracting user intent and expectation is going to be difficult.  Perhaps we can add more clarity in this area to distinguish between the two states with this technology use.
>>
>> -  Click redirect:  When are intermediaries expected vs. unexpected?
>> -  Interaction:  What are objective measures to divide material/meaningful interaction from casual/trivial interaction?
>>
>> Side note - I think you made your point in #4 and there was no need to repeat it in #5.  :-)  Was there perhaps an alternate use case you had meant to use in #5?
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Lowenthal [mailto:tom@mozilla.com] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 6:12 PM
>> To: public-tracking@w3.org
>> Subject: User intended interactions [1st & 3rd Parties]
>>
>> ACTION-27 ISSUE-10
>>
>> As promised, here is a proposal for "first" and "third" parties. I know that these names are too sticky to drop now, but the following definitions are based on the model of meaningful user interaction, not some *a priori* party definitions.
>>
>> I tried to give as many examples as I could think of, based on our conversations about use cases. Please let me know if I've missed some.
>>
>>   ---
>>
>> An entity becomes a first party when a user takes an affirmative action to communicate or interact with that clearly identifiable entity. Unless the user has taken such affirmative action, an entity is a third party.
>> The following examples indicate interactions which do and do not meet this criteria.
>>
>>
>> 1. A user types "nytimes.com" into their browser's URL bar, thereby loading the New York Times homepage. The New York Times is a first party. There are no other first parties.
>> 2. A user visits a New York Times article. There are Google "+1" and Twitter "Tweet this" buttons on the page. The New York Times is a first party. Google and Twitter are third parties.
>> 3. The user recognizes the Twitter "Tweet this" button, and clicks it in order to share the article with their tweeps. Twitter is now a first party to this interaction. Google remains a third party.
>> 4. The user loads a new article. An advertisement loads, and begins playing loud music. The user clicks the ad's mute button. The ad is at all times a third party.
>> 5. The user loads a new article. An advertisement loads, and begins playing loud music. The user clicks the ad's mute button. The ad is at all times a third party.
>> 6. The user loads a new article. An advertisement loads, and renders in front of the text of the article, obscuring it. The user clicks a "close" button on the ad to dismiss it. The ad is at all times a third party.
>> 7. The user visits a site. There is a weather widget with no obvious branding. The user thinks that the widget is operated by and part of the site that they are visiting, because of the lack of obvious branding.
>> The user clicks on the widget to scroll forward and see tomorrow's weather. The widget is at all times a third party.
>> 8. The user visits a site with a clearly-branded Accuweather.com weather widget. The user recognizes the branding, and clicks on the widget to get more weather information. Accuweather.com is a first party to that interaction.
>> 9. A user sees an advertisement for Chips Ahoy cookies. The user wants to buy some cookies, so they click the ad. The Nabisco is a first party.
>> Nabisco may have hired many advertising companies as vendors.
>> 10. A user sees a tweet which says "Check out this awesome NYT article bit.ly/1234". The user clicks the link, expecting to be redirected by bitly to the New York Times. Twitter, bitly and the New York Times are all first parties to this interaction.
>> 11. A user sees a tweet which says "Check out this awesome NYT article nyti.ms/1234". The user recognizes that that this is a link to the New York Times, but doesn't know that the New York Times has hired bit.ly to do URL shortening. The user clicks the link, expecting to be redirected by a shortener to the New York Times. Twitter and the New York Times are all first parties to this interaction. bit.ly is a service provider for the New York times.
>> 12. A user clicks a links which says "Awesome NYT Article" and points to framing.com/nyt1234. This page loads nothing but a frame which contains a New York Times article, but all links are rewritten to pass through framing.com rather than pointing at other NYT articles. The New York Times is a first party. Framing.com is a third party.
>> 13. The user clicks one of these links to go to another NYT artcile, and gets directed to framing.com/nyt1235. The New York Times is a first party. Framing.com is a third party.
>>
>>
> 
> 


Received on Wednesday, 9 November 2011 07:19:49 UTC

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