Re: Scrolling as overlap avoidance (Re: Alternative approach to scrolling, with demos)

Actually, there is a distinction between the background color just
appearing behind the text, and the background applying to the entire
bounding box of the cue. I think WebVTT may just provide the former, in
which case the extra width of the cue wouldn't matter.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Christian Vogler <
christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:

> This kind of background handling is definitely needed, and a background
> stretching across the entire width would be unacceptable. Captions with
> background are a prevalent preference among consumers.
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid <
> lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a good point. The background would extend across the entire
>> width. Philip,  supporting auto as a cue width would address this. Is that
>> a possibility?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Christian Vogler <
>> christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Just checking here, what does this mean for text background? Say, you
>>> have white text on black background - will the black extend only to the
>>> width of the actual text plus padding?
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <philipj@opera.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The auto width was discussed for regions, for a single cue I think one
>>>> should simply make the cue box as big as it can be. That is in fact
>>>> the default size, 100%.
>>>>
>>>> Philip
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid
>>>> <lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>>>> > Yes, an option for "auto" width would allow this. Philip and Silvia,
>>>> is that
>>>> > still on the table?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Christian Vogler
>>>> > <christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For this kind of situation, line wrapping should be considered only
>>>> as a
>>>> >> method of last resort. If possible, growing the cue to the left,
>>>> right, or
>>>> >> both, would in most cases be preferable. Especially if a line wrap
>>>> breaks up
>>>> >> a single word.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Christian
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my mobile phone.  Please excuse any touchscreen-induced
>>>> >> weirdness.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On May 8, 2014 10:09 AM, "Philip Jägenstedt" <philipj@opera.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks for digging that up, Loretta!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In this example, there are single cues which are positioned, not
>>>> >>> groups of cues, so I don't think regions should be required to
>>>> achieve
>>>> >>> the same result.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> With pre-regions WebVTT this could be reproduced by using the align
>>>> >>> setting and a suitably positioned cue box, it seems.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Note that lineAlign:bottom only controls the alignment of the first
>>>> >>> line, so if a cue wraps then lineAlign can't be used to provide an
>>>> >>> anchor point for the cue as a whole, in particular you couldn't use
>>>> it
>>>> >>> to avoid overlapping text just below the cue.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm guessing that for speaking identification you'll place the cue
>>>> >>> either above or below the speaker. Would a way to control the
>>>> >>> direction in which the cue grows when the font size increases or
>>>> lines
>>>> >>> wraps be sufficient?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Philip
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid
>>>> >>> <lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> > (Still trying to find non-pay examples of interesting
>>>> placement...)
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Here is one, although the visual motivation for this particular
>>>> >>> > placement
>>>> >>> > isn't clear:
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR1PO6zH60c#t=1m53s
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > The positioned captions occur at 2:09
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:18 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <
>>>> philipj@opera.com>
>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> [I accidentally sent this reply off-list two days ago.]
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> In the CPC demo, simple left and right alignment is used to
>>>> follow the
>>>> >>> >> speaker:
>>>> >>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqPe-IceP4
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Do you have an example where something more fancy than this is
>>>> used?
>>>> >>> >> Note that just by using the position, size and align setting you
>>>> can
>>>> >>> >> do fancier things, but an example would help determine if that's
>>>> >>> >> enough or not.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Christian Vogler
>>>> >>> >> <christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> > To me, positioning for speaker identification makes the most
>>>> sense
>>>> >>> >> > in
>>>> >>> >> > terms
>>>> >>> >> > of the anchor point - this point is the target for each
>>>> speaker.
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > Christian
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:27 PM, David Singer <
>>>> singer@apple.com>
>>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> On May 5, 2014, at 5:00 , Philip Jägenstedt <
>>>> philipj@opera.com>
>>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> >> (2) the background color on the width and height of the
>>>> rollup
>>>> >>> >> >> >> area
>>>> >>> >> >> >> needs to be changeable
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >> > Why? As I noted in the "background box tweaking" thread
>>>> that's
>>>> >>> >> >> > still
>>>> >>> >> >> > possible with the sum of my suggestions, but I don't
>>>> understand
>>>> >>> >> >> > what
>>>> >>> >> >> > the use case is.
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> >> (4) move all the cues in the region as a group to another
>>>> >>> >> >> >> location
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >> > This is also not handled by the current spec. I don't think
>>>> it
>>>> >>> >> >> > makes
>>>> >>> >> >> > sense either, why not just end the cues and repeat them in
>>>> a new
>>>> >>> >> >> > position?
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> I agree for these that if you want something ‘similar’ to
>>>> appear as
>>>> >>> >> >> what’s
>>>> >>> >> >> already there, the clean thing to do is to re-draw it.  Same
>>>> >>> >> >> content
>>>> >>> >> >> but in
>>>> >>> >> >> a different region (with different position or colors), and
>>>> so on.
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >> >> (3) font size changes on the region need to make the
>>>> region go
>>>> >>> >> >> >> bigger
>>>> >>> >> >> >> centered out from the anchor point
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >> > That's not handled by the current spec. We've talked about
>>>> using
>>>> >>> >> >> > font-relative units but that hasn't happened. I'd love to
>>>> >>> >> >> > understand
>>>> >>> >> >> > the use case for this though. Do you have an example video
>>>> frame
>>>> >>> >> >> > where
>>>> >>> >> >> > scaling around an anchor point is necessary as opposed to
>>>> mode of
>>>> >>> >> >> > scaling that happens with classical WebVTT?
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> I also am curious
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >> David Singer
>>>> >>> >> >> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> > --
>>>> >>> >> > Christian Vogler, PhD
>>>> >>> >> > Director, Technology Access Program
>>>> >>> >> > Department of Communication Studies
>>>> >>> >> > SLCC 1116
>>>> >>> >> > Gallaudet University
>>>> >>> >> > http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
>>>> >>> >> > VP: 202-250-2795
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian Vogler, PhD
>>> Director, Technology Access Program
>>> Department of Communication Studies
>>> SLCC 1116
>>> Gallaudet University
>>> http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
>>> VP: 202-250-2795
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Vogler, PhD
> Director, Technology Access Program
> Department of Communication Studies
> SLCC 1116
> Gallaudet University
> http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
> VP: 202-250-2795
>

Received on Thursday, 8 May 2014 18:03:46 UTC