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Minutes, June 9 2011 SVG WG telcon

From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 14:03:25 -0700
To: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@adobe.com>
CC: "'public-svg-wg@w3.org'" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <8A13F0222395BD428969E5BA529EFA74778AA6E489@NAMBX01.corp.adobe.com>
Present: Cameron, Doug, Chris, Rik
Chair: Cameron
Scribe: Rik

http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html



                               - DRAFT -



                   SVG Working Group Teleconference



09 Jun 2011



   [2]Agenda



      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011AprJun/0137.html



   See also: [3]IRC log



      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-irc



Attendees



   Present

   Regrets

   Chair

          Cameron



   Scribe

          cabanier



Contents



     * [4]Topics

         1. [5]SVG 1.1 Second Edition

         2. [6]Seattle F2F form

         3. [7]CSS WG testing

         4. [8]Text layout

         5. [9]FX taskforce

     * [10]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 09 June 2011



   <shepazu> [11]http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122



     [11] http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122



   <heycam> ScribeNick: cabanier



   <heycam> CM: let's get started



SVG 1.1 Second Edition



   DS: did you catch the out of date reference?



   CL: I did not. didn't think it was prudent to change

   ... can you still change?



   DS: yes you can



   <ChrisL> can change in response to ac review comments



   <heycam> CM: I saw philippe mentioned our CSS2.0 reference, did you

   explain that to him?



   <heycam> CL: yes



   CM: there are 4 weeks to comment and then will become recommended



   there weren't too many people commenting. There is a culture where

   if people don't comment, they imply yes



   don't panic if there are no comments but it would be better if

   people do



   (that was doug schepers)



Seattle F2F form



   CM: form is supposed to be done at the end of the mont

   ... send a reminder to get topics for the venue

   ... one of the agenda items is the FX topics but we will wait until

   Vincent calls in



CSS WG testing



   <heycam> [12]http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org



     [12] http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org



   <shepazu> public-test-infra@w3.org<mailto:public-test-infra@w3.org>



   DS: in the testing taskforce there is a consensus to use the stuff

   that Peter Linss has done for CSS

   ... he wrote a framework to aggregate the tests



   the framework allows to run a subset of the tests. when running test

   you can run all tests or just a couple



   DS: I want him to come talk to us because we feel strongly to have

   unified testing



   CM: should one of us call in?



   DS: I'll follow up with him

   ... he responded off-list that he wanted more information



   <scribe> ACTION: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing

   [recorded in

   [13]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]



Text layout



   ds: we have to wait for Vincent to be here



   CM: I made a recent proposal for positioning

   ... I didn't read Rik's email reply yet



   <heycam> RC: it seems that svg is trying to do two things at once



   <heycam> ... it's doing layout for you, but also wants to provide

   you with the ability to position glyphs yourself



   <heycam> ... it's a little bit the same thing with ligatures



   <heycam> ... it'll create ligatures for you, but then also wants to

   give you the ability with positioning not to create ligatures



   <heycam> ... so it seems a bit messy



   <heycam> ... I propose that maybe we should have a new type of text,

   more like pdf, specifying individual glyphs taht you want to use



   <heycam> ... so you can choose the ligatures



   <heycam> ... and you always specify glyph positions



   <heycam> ... and the existing <text> will be automatically laid out

   text



   <ChrisL> sounds like a glyphlist rather than text - so would need an

   'alt' for accessibility



   <heycam> ... and it can create ligatures on the fly for you



   <heycam> ... so people who want a simple interface can still have

   that, but people like us, who want more control over glyph selection

   and positioning can have that as well



   <heycam> CM: we may need to have glyph indexing



   <ChrisL> the interaction between altglyph and opentype layout tables

   is underspecified



   <heycam> CM: but we do have <altGlyph> and <glyphDef>



   DS: do we have properties to control if ligatures are formed?



   <ChrisL> CSS3 has a way to disable discretionary ligatures



   CM: true

   ... but, I don't think that turns of mandatory ones



   DS: ok



   CM: I'm not completely well versed in the area.



   DS: seems like a pain



   CL: I understand that the idea behind the 2 modes



   CM: do we want 'abc' or indexes into the font file



   CL: not sure



   RC: going the PDF way might be very difficult



   CM: not if just using glyph ids



   RC: true



   CM: SVG is not ideal for absolute position but there is a need for

   positioning on character based input.

   ... Rik do you have an opinion



   RC: I was looking at it from absolute positioning



   CM: we need to keep allowing positioning in the current SVG text

   ... and make it as accessible as possible



   CL: one of the reasons that was added was for adding more

   complicated text on a path



   RC: and every glyph could have its own matrix



   CM: yes by specifiying a rotation

   ... maybe we should present this at the face-to-face

   ... I need to implement it anyway and I will start off with my

   proposal

   ... I will give more detail at the F2F

   ... for the use case of absolute positioning, we should try to

   support better and someone should start on a proposal

   ... rik, do you want to take this on?



   RC: I will discuss with Vincent but Adobe's interested.



   CM: using glyph indices is probably a good way



   RC: using glyph indices requires you have the font



   CM: I think that is reasonable.

   ... that the font is always there when you do absolute positioning



FX taskforce



   DS: want to discuss the CSS and SVG charters



   CM: should we wait for vincent



   DS: we'll talk about it via email



Summary of Action Items



   [NEW] ACTION: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing

   [recorded in

   [14]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]



   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________





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     _________________________________________________________



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