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Minutes, 12 Oct 2010 SVG WG telcon

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:30:20 +0200
Message-ID: <664502988.20101012233020@w3.org>
To: www-svg@w3.org
Hello www-svg,

Minutes in glorious technicolour
http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-minutes.html

and grainy, some what sepia-toned monochrome

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

12 Oct 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0016.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Shepazu, [IPcaller], heycam, +1.617.588.aaaa, ed, ChrisL,
          anthony, +1.617.588.aabb, tbah, [Microsoft]

   Regrets
   Chair
          Erik

   Scribe
          anthony

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVG 1.1F2 implementation report
         2. [6]Accepting New Tests
         3. [7]Progress on Last Call Issues
         4. [8]AnimateMotion and transform on <svg> elements
         5. [9]pAR on image
         6. [10]Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for <image>
            element
         7. [11]feDisplacementMap needs to specify how to treat output
     * [12]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 12 October 2010

   <ChrisL> its good to add an @issue with the issue number, but that
   is not what we have currently

   <ChrisL> tbah, looks like it was you after all

   <ChrisL> please redial

   <scribe> Scribe: anthony

   <scribe> ScribeNick: anthony

SVG 1.1F2 implementation report

   <ed>
   [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/001
   1.html

     [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0011.html

   ED: We have updates to the implementation query XML file
   ... and test suite status
   ... I noticed the issues on tests are not listed
   ... in the overview table

   CL: It's not counting up the issues
   ... but it is marking them red in the table

   ED: Are those tests part of the accepted tests?

   AG: No, I don't think they haven't been added in

   CL: When did you last run that?

   AG: When I sent my email out

   CL: There's been a few more added

   ED: Do you think it makes sense to run the scripts again?

   CL: I finished my action
   ... and I have reviewed several MS tests
   ... mostly pretty straight forward
   ... I would argue that most of them could be accepted

   ED: Do you have a list?
   ... Have we made sure we don't have a lot of tests with brackets?

   CL: I checked the ones I had done
   ... and got rid of the brackets

   AG: I fixed a few as well the other day

   ED: I'll commit the files, they seem to be ok from what I can tell
   ...
   ... ok, done

   <ed>
   [14]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/test_suite_stat
   us.html

     [14] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/test_suite_status.html

   <ed> now lists the issues in the overview table

   CM: Could you summarise what's going on with the test suite in terms
   of status information?

   <ed> 408 accepted tests

   <ed> sorry, 406

   <ed> the total number seems borked though :)

   ED: What's been going on lately is we been reviewing and adding
   tests for changes made in the 2nd edition spec
   ... and been reviewing MS tests

   CM: In that table
   ... the "unreviewed" have disappeared from the table

   <ChrisL> um, the test_suite_status seems to have only a single line
   now

   <ed> sorry if i borked this, what i did was only to run "make
   teststatus" in the scripts directory

   ALL: [Test discussion]

   CL: Some of the tests that MS committed are pretty simple tests
   ... they check small things
   ... and we have at least two implementations there
   ... because Opera passes most of those as well

   <ChrisL> the number reviewed should not be zero

   CM: How much test work is there to do on the test suite?

   CL: We have a test suite freeze at the end of the month
   ... some really old tests that have been around for years have been
   accepted
   ... and we are going to talk about what we are going to do with the
   new tests

   CM: I can spend some time reviewing tests

   <ChrisL> I will continue going through the ms tests, have reviewed
   about 18 or so

Accepting New Tests

   <ChrisL> painting-marker-07-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [15]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-07
   -f.svg

     [15] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-07-f.svg

   CL: I'll make reference images as needed

   <ChrisL> accepted

   CL: for the ones I say I can do

   <ChrisL> masking-path-14-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [16]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-14-f.
   svg

     [16] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-14-f.svg

   ED: The pass criteria is a bit long
   ... do we need the second paragraph there?

   CL: Some tests have a description on how and why they work

   <ChrisL> ok, move lengthy prose on how it works to description

   ED: That should go into the description area

   <ChrisL>
   [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-12-f.
   svg

     [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-12-f.svg

   CL: The pass criteria needs to say something like "If you support
   CSS style sheets then.."

   <ChrisL> pass crieria don't take into account optionality of style
   sheets (selectors)

   <ChrisL>
   [18]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-image-03-f
   .svg

     [18] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-image-03-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-gauss-03-f
   .svg

     [19] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-gauss-03-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [20]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-gauss-02-f
   .svg

     [20] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-gauss-02-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [21]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-felem-02-f
   .svg

     [21] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-felem-02-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-13-f.
   svg

     [22] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-13-f.svg

   CL: Added a red rect to show up on error

   <ChrisL> add operator script

   CL: don' t like tests that show up blank

   <ChrisL>
   [23]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformat
   tr-05-f.svg

     [23] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformattr-05-f.svg

   <ed> typo: paramters

   <ChrisL> oops

   <ChrisL>
   [24]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-11-b.
   svg

     [24] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-path-11-b.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [25]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-mask-02-f.
   svg

     [25] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/masking-mask-02-f.svg

   CL: Some I have recommitted with the right name

   <ChrisL>
   [26]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/linking-a-10-f.svg

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/linking-a-10-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/imp-path-01-f.svg

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/imp-path-01-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformat
   tr-04-f.svg

     [28] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformattr-04-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [29]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformat
   tr-03-f.svg

     [29] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/coords-transformattr-03-f.svg

   ED: Last one here needs to move the pass criteria

   <ChrisL> move pass criteria to test description

   ED: up to the test description

   <ChrisL> ok so I will mark all those as accepted

   AG: Committed new test suite status

   CL: Seeing some odd things here
   ... animate-elem-24
   ... sure I got rid of the red in that
   ... it's because uses an image patch

   <ChrisL> the patch has red but the image is ok. need to update patch

   CL: That status page looks ok if you scroll down
   ... if you click on the link that says "hide accepted" it reduces it
   down to a single row
   ... so we've accepted two batches of the MS tests
   ... I'll have to go back through the patch files and fix them up
   ... or delete them if we don't need a patch file

   ED: If you want to review tests that is a good place to start

   <ChrisL> i don't see any reviewed tests but there should be 18

   <ed> heycam: if you want to review tests,
   [30]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/test_suite_stat
   us.html and click the "Click to toggle accepted tests" link

     [30] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/test_suite_status.html

   <heycam> ed, ok, will do

   <ChrisL> struct-image-13-f.svg to struct-image-15-f.svg

   <ChrisL> ok i will make 8 bit versions for the patch

   <ed>
   [31]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-composite-
   03-f.svg

     [31] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-composite-03-f.svg

   <ChrisL> gee its such a pity that Batik does not handle 16 bit per
   component PNG images ....

   <ed>
   [32]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-1
   0-f.svg

     [32] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-10-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-1
   0-f.svg

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-10-f.svg

   <ed>
   [34]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/pservers-pattern-0
   4-f.svg

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/pservers-pattern-04-f.svg

   <ChrisL> pservers-pattern-04-f.svg

   <ChrisL> action chris to mark all the accepted tests from todays
   telcon

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2880 - Mark all the accepted tests from
   todays telcon [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-10-19].

   <ChrisL> after I have done it I will send email so we can regen the
   xml file for testing

   ED: Done on the tests sutie?

Progress on Last Call Issues

   <ChrisL> [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/SVG1.1SE-LastCall/dump.html

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/SVG1.1SE-LastCall/dump.html

   ED: Wondering if it is possible to get a Disposition of Comments?

   CL: We need to add notes to some of these issues
   ... if we have had replies we should mark it
   ... and if the working group accepts it
   ... we should mark it

   ED: I spent some time fixing mine in the issue tracker
   ... there were 13 undressed issues

   AG: I know I have at least one issue
   ... haven't had a chance to look at it yet

   ED: We are about half way there

   CL: Probably more, some of those we've done it
   ... just haven't been marked

AnimateMotion and transform on <svg> elements

   ED: The thread seemed to conclude that animate motion does apply to
   the <svg> element
   ... the spec says that <svg> elements don't have the transform
   attribute
   ... but it would be good to have a transform available to child SVG
   elements
   ... that would make sense
   ... not very different to having x,y attributes

   CL: Do we have implementations that do anything with that?

   ED: With transform on child <svg> elements?
   ... but not suggesting to add it to 1.1 2nd edition

   <ed>
   [36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0068.html

     [36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0068.html

   CL: So thinking of adding it to SVG 2?

   ED: Yes
   ... AlexD and Cameron seemed to agree
   ... if you have SVG as a property it can be placed on the root
   ... should a raise a general issue?

   CL: Yes, raise an issue

   <heycam> One question is whether you make the transform="" apply
   after or before the implicit transform that gets set up due to
   x/y/width/height/viewBox/pAR.

   <ChrisL> issue-2382?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2382 -- Allow 'transform' on nested <svg> elements
   -- raised

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2382

     [37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2382

   ED: Have to define how it applies
   ... something to think about later

pAR on image

   <ed>
   [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0047.html

     [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0047.html

Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for <image> element

   CL: He's right

   ED: What exactly is he suggesting to change?

   CL: If the referring element says "defer" then you do take notice of
   the aspect ratio being referred to
   ... we should treat this as a last call comment

   ED: Will you add it to the tracker if that is the case

   CL: Yes

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to Add wording to the specification to
   address issue raised in Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for
   <image> element [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2881 - Add wording to the specification to
   address issue raised in Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for
   <image> element [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-10-19].

   <ChrisL> ISSUE-2383?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2383 -- Last Call Comment: pAR on image, and defer
   -- raised

   <trackbot> [40]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2383

     [40] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2383

   <ChrisL> close action-2881

   <trackbot> ACTION-2881 Add wording to the specification to address
   issue raised in Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for <image>
   element closed

   <ChrisL> :)

feDisplacementMap needs to specify how to treat output

   ED: I think the specification says what to do
   ... it says that colour interpolation filters do not apply to in
   source image
   ... and if it doesn't apply, how can it apply to the result
   ... it says in particular that you apply colour interpolation
   filters to the displacement map
   ... I guess I could go either way on this
   ... but I guess it would be a good idea to clarify what happens
   ... The colour space of in source image should be the colour space
   of the filter output

   AG: Would make it simple

   ED: don't think this is what opera does at the moment, will have a
   look at the code
   ... would be interesting to see what ASV did as well

   <ed> [41]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11015

     [41] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11015

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Propose wording or a test case for what the
   colour space should be for feDisplacementMap [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2882 - Propose wording or a test case for
   what the colour space should be for feDisplacementMap [on Erik
   Dahlström - due 2010-10-19].

   trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to Add wording to the specification to address
   issue raised in Inconsistency about preserveAspectRatio for <image>
   element [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Propose wording or a test case for what the
   colour space should be for feDisplacementMap [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]


-- 
 Chris Lilley   Technical Director, Interaction Domain                 
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
 Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Tuesday, 12 October 2010 21:31:46 GMT

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