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Minutes Feb 2, 2009 telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:55:53 +0100
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.uoqsffrdgeuyw5@blorp.xn--dahlstrm-t4a.net>

Minutes here:


     http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html


or as text here:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

02 Feb 2009

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           heycam, ChrisL, Erik, anthony

    Regrets
    Chair
           CMC

    Scribe
           erik

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]ISSUE-2201
          2. [5]ISSUE-2071
          3. [6]ISSUE-2026
          4. [7]ISSUE-2018
          5. [8]ACTION-2165
          6. [9]ACTION-2397
          7. [10]ACTION-2393,
             http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progr
             essevent_eventtarget
          8. [11]SVG 1.1 errata
          9. [12]ISSUE-2113
         10. [13]ISSUE-2179
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 02 February 2009

    <scribe> scribe: erik

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed_

    <ChrisL> issue-2201?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2201 -- Return value of
    SVGAnimationElement.getStartTime unclear -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2201

      [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2201

ISSUE-2201

    ED: question is whether the decided upon behaviour was the most
    useful to authors
    ... have implemented the resolution we came to

    CL: seems resonable to raise exception if you cant calculate the
    starttime

    <ChrisL> It seems reasonable to me. if the re is no current
    interval, then throw an exception

    CMC: you can determine whether it's the current starttime or the
    previous interval starttime
    ... don't mind either way
    ... CL if you're concerned about whether it's not current...

    CL: right, but it's only about whether a begin time could be
    determined

    ED: is it possible for an author to get the previous starttime?

    CMC: perhaps by listening to endEvents

    CL: is there information that the impl has that can be given back by
    the exceptioncodes

    CMC: currently just trhows invalid_access_err

    ED: the counter-argument for listening to endEvents is listening to
    beginEvents

    CMC: for either way yes, the workaround is to listen for events

    ED: ok, at least there are workarounds
    ... fine, the current errata text will be fine

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to do the suggested changes/additions to the
    [16]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartT
    ime-return-value errata item, see
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html
    [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action01]

      [16]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value
      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2430 - Do the suggested changes/additions
    to the
    [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartT
    ime-return-value errata item, see
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html
    [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-02-09].

      [19]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value
      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html

ISSUE-2071

    <heycam> ISSUE-2071?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2071 -- potential security hole involving
    pointer-events, filters, foreignObject, cross-origin IFRAMEs, and
    elementFromPoint -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071

    CMC: Robert sent some examples of how one might be able to access
    crossorigin content

    CL: it's using filters to access a part of the screen that you own

    <ChrisL> Opera has getPixel and setPixel on canvas, might be another
    way without filters

    CMC: right, mozillas blingthing had something similar IIRC
    ... I think it should probably be tracked per-origin

    CL: if you have an svg that brings in a raster image from somewhere
    else, then you don't want your filters to stop working
    ... with some strange securityviolation error

    CMC: the fact that filters can use the image is ok, but you might
    have to restrict how scripts can access that information
    ... some ppl have experimented wrapping entire sites in some color
    tint filters, and that sort of things should still work
    ... the particular thing is pointer-events=painted, maybe the
    wording could be tweaked to cover that hole
    ... but it's more of a general problem

    CL: exposing pixel values to script is the issue

    CMC: one way would be to track pixel per pixel the origin
    ... the other might be to [fill-in-blank]

    <heycam> s/[fill-in-the-blank]/have a single "tainted" flag that
    gets set whenever foreign content is accessible via a particular
    canvas, etc./

    <heycam> ...which would prevent script from accessing any of the
    pixels there

    CMC: ED did you want to ask your security guys about this?

    ED: I think for this particular issue that's raised we weren't
    vulnerable, but I'll inquire about the other possible exploits
    accessing pixel values

    CMC: might be good to discuss at the F2F

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to start the discussion on security
    SVG/canvas/filters etc with the security-group at opera [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2431 - Start the discussion on security
    SVG/canvas/filters etc with the security-group at opera [on Erik
    Dahlström - due 2009-02-09].

ISSUE-2026

    ISSUE-2026?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2026 -- Need Test Ensuring that 'class' is
    Animatable -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2026

      [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2026

    CMC: the rest are issues to create tests, they jsut don't have
    actions yet

    CL: on svg full 1.2 testsuite, but should probably be 1.1 testsuite

    CMC: though we might be able to getPresentationTrait in 1.2 full

    CL: seems like an easy test to write

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to create an SVG 1.1 test verifying that the
    class attribute is animatable [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2432 - Create an SVG 1.1 test verifying
    that the class attribute is animatable [on Chris Lilley - due
    2009-02-09].

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to create an SVG 1.2 full test verifying that
    the class attribute is animatable, relates to ISSUE-2026 [recorded
    in [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2433 - Create an SVG 1.2 full test
    verifying that the class attribute is animatable, relates to
    ISSUE-2026 [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-02-09].

ISSUE-2018

    CMC: this sounds like a tricky one to test

    CL: not really
    ... use cursorkeys and normal keys
    ... put on capslock and shift, that could be done as a sequence
    ... though it might be hard if you have a device that don't have
    those keys

    CMC: ought to be comprehensive, maybe a list of keys that we know
    don't generate any text
    ... doesn't seem particularly urgent

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to create 1.2T tests for ISSUE-2018,
    ISSUE-2019, ISSUE-2020 [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2434 - Create 1.2T tests for ISSUE-2018,
    ISSUE-2019, ISSUE-2020 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-02-09].

ACTION-2165

    <heycam>
    [27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#xml_space

      [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#xml_space

    <ChrisL> action-2165?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2165 -- Erik Dahlström to add a 1.1 errata item
    for having xml:space on tspan elements to align with 1.2T (split out
    from ACTION-2048) -- due 2008-08-30 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165

      [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165

    ED: basically just aligning with 1.2T, minor clarification
    ... cat3 correct?

    CL: seems like a cat3 yes

    ED: can we move it to proposed?

    CMC: yes, looks
    ... fine

    <heycam> <span class='attr-name'>'xml:space'</span>

    <heycam> <a href=...><span class='element-name'>'text'</span></a>

    <scribe> ACTION: fix markup for
    [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165 as
    indicated in these minutes and move to proposed [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action06]

      [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - fix

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to fix markup for
    [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165 as
    indicated in these minutes and move to proposed [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action07]

      [31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2435 - Fix markup for
    [33]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165 as
    indicated in these minutes and move to proposed [on Erik Dahlström -
    due 2009-02-09].

      [33] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165

ACTION-2397

    <ChrisL> action-2397?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2397 -- Erik Dahlström to add 'loadstart',
    'progress' and 'loadend' as animation events to the 1.2T errata --
    due 2009-01-19 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2397

      [34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2397

    <heycam>
    [35]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ents

      [35]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevents

    ED: should probably fix the title of it

    CMC: yep, looks ok, move to proposed

ACTION-2393,
[36]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevent
_eventtarget

      [36]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevent_eventtarget

    CMC: need some markup for xlink:href there

    AG: looks good to me

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to fix the markup and move the two errata items
    to proposed:
    [37]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ent_eventtarget and
    [38]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ents [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action08]

      [37]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevent_eventtarget
      [38]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevents

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2436 - Fix the markup and move the two
    errata items to proposed:
    [40]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ent_eventtarget and
    [41]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ents [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-02-09].

      [40]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevent_eventtarget
      [41]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevents

    AG: we're waiting for some actions on zoomevents (on jwatt)

SVG 1.1 errata

    AG: there are some items on doug and some on jwatt, but we should
    try to get those sorted at the f2f

    CMC: not sure which ones need to be done before the f2f

ISSUE-2113

    <heycam> ISSUE-2113?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2113 -- animate-elem-35 -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [42]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2113

      [42] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2113

    CMC: comment from someone saying that one of the 1.2T tests has a
    problem because it relies on particular precision
    ... someone should probably take action to analyze this

    CL: would it help having an explicit lineto instead of the
    closepath?
    ... also don't understand why it doesn't amp to fixedpoint
    coordinates

    CMC: might be that the test could be tweaked
    ... would need someone to go through the calculations

    CL: do we know if any of the mobiles use fixedpoint?

    CMC: I think so
    ... if the calculations come out fine in 16.16 we can probably close
    the issue
    ... think the mail there explains why they chose something else than
    16.16

    CL: what's the company?

    CMC: ekioh
    ... maybe we should restructure the test to run inside some given
    precision
    ... we should know from the implementation report which
    implementations pass

    ED: though all the implementations were run on desktop, might be
    different on device

    <scribe> ACTION: AG to see if the animate-elem-35 can be remade to
    work under smaller precision fixedpoint [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action09]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2437 - See if the animate-elem-35 can be
    remade to work under smaller precision fixedpoint [on Anthony Grasso
    - due 2009-02-09].

ISSUE-2179

    <heycam> ISSUE-2179?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2179 -- text-fonts-202-t has wrong reference image
    -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [44]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2179

      [44] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2179

    CMC: probably only to regenerate the reference image

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to fix the text-fonts-202-t reference image,
    addressing ISSUE-2179 [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action10]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2438 - Fix the text-fonts-202-t reference
    image, addressing ISSUE-2179 [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-02-09].

    CMC: does tiny 1.2 require external fonts?

    CL: yes, but only svg fonts are required
    ... will make an svgfont of the font (have permission to do so)

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to convert the text-fonts-202-t truetype font to
    an svgfont and use for another test [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action11]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2439 - Convert the text-fonts-202-t
    truetype font to an svgfont and use for another test [on Chris
    Lilley - due 2009-02-09].

    thursday topics: filters, compositing

    scribe: david daileys suggestions

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: AG to see if the animate-elem-35 can be remade to work
    under smaller precision fixedpoint [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action09]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to convert the text-fonts-202-t truetype font to an
    svgfont and use for another test [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action11]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to create an SVG 1.1 test verifying that the class
    attribute is animatable [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to create an SVG 1.2 full test verifying that the
    class attribute is animatable, relates to ISSUE-2026 [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to fix the text-fonts-202-t reference image,
    addressing ISSUE-2179 [recorded in
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action10]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to fix markup for
    [52]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165 as
    indicated in these minutes and move to proposed [recorded in
    [53]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to fix the markup and move the two errata items to
    proposed:
    [54]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ent_eventtarget and
    [55]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressev
    ents [recorded in
    [56]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to start the discussion on security
    SVG/canvas/filters etc with the security-group at opera [recorded in
    [57]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: fix markup for
    [58]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165 as
    indicated in these minutes and move to proposed [recorded in
    [59]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to create 1.2T tests for ISSUE-2018,
    ISSUE-2019, ISSUE-2020 [recorded in
    [60]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to do the suggested changes/additions to the
    [61]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartT
    ime-return-value errata item, see
    [62]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html
    [recorded in
    [63]http://www.w3.org/2009/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action01]

      [52] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165
      [54]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevent_eventtarget
      [55]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#progressevents
      [58] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165
      [61]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value
      [62] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0050.html

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [64]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([65]CVS log)
     $Date: 2009/02/02 20:54:14 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [64] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [65] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Found Scribe: erik
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Default Present: heycam, ChrisL, Erik, anthony
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Found Date: 02 Feb 2009
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