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Minutes, SVG telcon Monday 1 December 2008

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:05:26 +1100
Message-ID: <49345196.7050404@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: W3C SVG Public Working Group <public-svg-wg@w3.org>


http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

01 Dec 2008

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shepazu, heycam, anthony, NH, ed

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Selectors API
          2. [5]Errata
      * [6]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2008

    <NH> ??P1 is me

    <scribe> Scribe: anthony

Selectors API

    DS: We should address this as early as possible

    ED: Was there anyone else going to review it?

    AG: I had an action to review it
    ... I'll do that today

    DS: Having looked at why the CSS WG decided to say never mind on
    that issue
    ... (namespaces) I inclined to let it go
    ... what do you guys to think?
    ... do we really want to the SVG WG to be the group that insists on
    namespaces

    ED: To me realistically want namespaces are you going to encounter?
    ... I can only see SVG and HTML5 as the opportunity to select only
    SVG or HTML elements
    ... and it's always possible to use DOM3 XPath if you need arbitrary
    selection support

    DS: If we pushed off namespaces to the second version there is a
    very good chance
    ... that people may not support that version

    CM: For the case of between SVG and HTML
    ... there is probably use the selector itself and look at the parent
    to clarify what it is

    [discussion on how selection works]

    DS: Lets assume that a version gets implemented that doesn't use
    namespaces
    ... I don't think it would be that much harder to implement
    ... as you're accumulating elements you can always just check the
    namespace URI attribute/property
    ... it would be slower, but only if you're using namespaces
    ... authors can always do the namespace URI check manually, it's
    just a pain

    ED: That's why I pushed for an example on the spec on this
    ... so people can see how to solve the problem

    DS: I'll have to go back and look through the whole namespaces thing
    ... David Baron said that someone had a spec with name spaces, and
    he argued that

    <ed> spec or impl?

    DS: it would go to rec quicker
    ... I don't know why they dropped it

    <shepazu>
    [7]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0538.html

       [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0538.html

    CM: Do you know which implementations support CSS3 namespaces?
    ... just wondering the complexity is because of implementing
    namespace support in CSS in general or the NSResolver stuff in the
    Selectors API?

    DS: Not sure

    ED: I haven't looked into this I know that Opera has implemented
    some of this
    ... not in my hands to implement, but it would be quite simple to do
    ... the NSResolvers look fairly simple to me

    DS: I'll talk to Lachy and Boris and look at the rationale as why
    namespaces was removed

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Investigate why namespaces was removed
    [recorded in
    [8]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2364 - Investigate why namespaces was
    removed [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].

    <shepazu>
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/011
    5.html

       [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0115.html

    DS: This seems to be the point at where Lachy says to remove it
    ... so maybe we should our comments in on Thursday instead

    ED: That would be good

Errata

    <ed>
    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/041
    1.html

      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0411.html

    CM: That looks like what we want
    ... should change "For example" to e.g.

    DS: I tried to word it in such a way that implementors could derive
    the value for boundingbox

    ED: I like the first paragraph there with the clippath and the
    boundingbox

    DS: It solves two issues what the boundingbox should be and where
    pointer events should occur
    ... How are we going to make the new spec?

    AG: How do you mean?

    DS: Are we going to make a new build process like Tiny 1.2 or are we
    going to do it manually?

    CM: Probably manually

    DS: Anthony can you make the changes please. Typos are "and" to "an"
    and "e.g" to "i.e"

    <shepazu>
    [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
    l#clippath-pointer-events

      [11] 
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events

    <ed>
    [12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#clippath-
    pointer-events

      [12] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.svg-whiz.com/svg/HideShow.svg

      [13] http://www.svg-whiz.com/svg/HideShow.svg

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata
    and make changes as discussed [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2365 - Adds Doug proposed wording to the
    errata and make changes as discussed [on Anthony Grasso - due
    2008-12-08].

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Follow up errata proposal on the Email list
    to say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved [recorded
    in [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2366 - Follow up errata proposal on the
    Email list to say that pointer events and clipping have been
    resolved [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].

    <ed>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/040
    8.html

      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0408.html

    ED: We did get an email from Niklas clamping of rx and ry values
    ... just wondering if we should errata this
    ... so I did start writing a new test for this particular issue
    ... from the testing so far we have more than two ways of doing it
    ... testing browsers

    AG: Did we specify anything in Tiny?

    ED: I think it was lifted from 1.1

    <ed>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/040
    9.html

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0409.html

    NH: In emailed a second test

    ED: It does seem to make sense
    ... So maybe we should discuss briefly which way is more appropriate
    ... it is difficult to read from the spec which right way

    NH: I think we have two options either we to assign ry if it's not
    specified and clamp that
    ... or you should clamp all the way as my last email says

    ED: Do you have a preference

    NH: Actually it doesn't really matter for me
    ... easiest way would be to not clamp "ry"

    AG: I think in this case what is most intuitive when it comes to
    authoring

    ED: For for authoring I'd expect to be whatever is clamped for rx
    and ry
    ... then I'd expect that value to be used for the other attribute
    (not specified)

    NH: It's not that obvious

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Propose an errata item for rx and ry
    [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2367 - Propose an errata item for rx and
    ry [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].

    ED: We can look at the current translate and current scale errata

    <ed>
    [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttr
    anslate-currentscale-nested-svg

      [19] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg

    ED: it has a resolution
    ... looks like Doug raised this

    DS: Not sure what the spec says right now

    ED: Probably only need to do changes in the structure chapter

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Propose wording for the change that
    addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested
    SVG [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2368 - Propose wording for the change that
    addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested
    SVG [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].

    <shepazu>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#errata

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#errata

    <ed>
    [22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth

      [22] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth

    <ed>
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0022.html

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0022.html

    ED: There are no links there
    ... would be useful
    ... This is probably the start of it
    ... Might be a good idea to go through
    ... and find out if Tiny fixed this

    DS: We should give this serious thought about how this interacts
    with CSS
    ... we should start coordinating on little issues like this
    ... will help create a better working relationship with CSS
    ... The SVG spec should say what the width and height are and should
    also allow authors to use that more usefully

    ED: There were some changes in Firefox and Opera where the width and
    height on the SVG were ignored if the SVG was being used in an
    object tag
    ... we should definitely try to specify it better

    <ed> if there was width and height AND a viewbox...and the object
    had width and height...IIRC

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Investigate if WICD addresses some of the
    issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS [recorded
    in [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2369 - Investigate if WICD addresses some
    of the issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS [on
    Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Go through the e-mailing thread for errata
    item "Sizing of the outermost svg" and update the item discussion
    [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2370 - Go through the e-mailing thread for
    errata item \"Sizing of the outermost svg\" and update the item
    discussion [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].

    <?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl"
    href="../../../tools/errata/errata2xhtml.xsl"?>

    application/xslt+xml

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata
    and make changes as discussed [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Follow up errata proposal on the Email list to
    say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Investigate if WICD addresses some of the
    issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS [recorded
    in [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Investigate why namespaces was removed
    [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Propose wording for the change that addresses
    the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested SVG
    [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Go through the e-mailing thread for errata
    item "Sizing of the outermost svg" and update the item discussion
    [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Propose an errata item for rx and ry [recorded
    in [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [33]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([34]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/12/01 21:00:40 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Found Date: 01 Dec 2008
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